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Rape....or 3 some....or both?
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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willin2learn wrote:Very suprised by the responses here. Someone was raped and we are having a good go at her here. Including our respectable ladies Big Chick and Anjelica. Its despicable Don't worry @Willin, there's something to learn here. Like; the big problem isn't the meaning of the sign. The big problem is the paradigm of interpretation. What are the paradigms we have and how do we use them to solve problems? When we use the paradigms we have, what range of answers do we expect to get? Could we be living in an infinite yet self referential universe/multiverse? And if the answer is 'yes', then how do we live, and relate?
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2012 Posts: 331 Location: Vantage point
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AlphDoti wrote:
@tycho the answer is no. Unlike other religions, Islam came to restore honour to women. I'm sure you've come across this verse 1 Timothy 2:11 which tells you not to open your mouth mbele ya wanaume.
@essyk and what you're laughing at is your Western lifestyle which you're busy admiring, the "Westernization", which is actually a disguise form of exploitation of the women body, deprivation of honour, and degrading of soul, through those naked women sitting on billboards, naked women selling everything even chocolate bar, toothpaste, everything... You can't tell me that does not represent sexual exploitation
I don't know if you've picked up on this but there is a silent realization in other people's responses of " an end justifies the means approach" in majority of your responses. This is why you will always be met with a counter-disagreeing comment questioning this and that. For example, you say that a woman should be silent before men. It is know even in the feeble world that for you to follow a movie, you need to have started from the beginning until the end. This means to get a quick idea of what is being talked about we normally read what's before and after to get the right context in that particular verse. In the verses that follow, you see Paul gives a clear reason as to why he says so, "And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" So now we know why he was declining a woman to speak before a man. It was not to oppressively shut her up as you have done with essyk, it was because they could easily be deceived by the devil when delivering a teaching. I can conclude without a shadow of a doubt that that was applicable in the time of Paul but NOT in the present time why? In Acts 2:17 it says, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke." Note with great emphasis verse no. 18, it says, Quote:And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy. Maidservant is a woman chosen of the Lord to shepherd His people. When someone is under the influence of the Spirit of God, no way they can mislead anyone because they are actually lead by God Himself. Should they mislead intentionally they will end up dead like Ananias and Saphira remember? This passage is talking of this present days we are living in right now. Now do we have evidence of the fulfillment of that verse (wonders of heaven and signs of the earth beneath)??? Yes we do and you can find it here if you are patient enough to watch it here:- Mary K. Baxter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5gv-V9axtg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAc9THWtQeQ
Bill Weise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxKRoONrfY
So essentially there you've mislead others with your selective interpretation just to strengthen your point even if it means misinterpreting the Bible. All now they see is oppression and unfortunately it's a little more obvious and very pronounced in your strongholds. I have a very strong feeling you are not going to benefit from this comment even if I quote you directly but others will and so for their sake I do. There are many many contentious comment you've made but I will not go into it because your responses always return with a selective filter applied.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Drobos fly wrote:AlphDoti wrote:
@tycho the answer is no. Unlike other religions, Islam came to restore honour to women. I'm sure you've come across this verse 1 Timothy 2:11 which tells you not to open your mouth mbele ya wanaume.
@essyk and what you're laughing at is your Western lifestyle which you're busy admiring, the "Westernization", which is actually a disguise form of exploitation of the women body, deprivation of honour, and degrading of soul, through those naked women sitting on billboards, naked women selling everything even chocolate bar, toothpaste, everything... You can't tell me that does not represent sexual exploitation
I don't know if you've picked up on this but there is a silent realization in other people's responses of " an end justifies the means approach" in majority of your responses. This is why you will always be met with a counter-disagreeing comment questioning this and that. For example, you say that a woman should be silent before men. It is know even in the feeble world that for you to follow a movie, you need to have started from the beginning until the end. This means to get a quick idea of what is being talked about we normally read what's before and after to get the right context in that particular verse. It is not me who says that, it is your Bible "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:essyk wrote:tycho wrote:An idle question: if you are a Muslim, and you have 4 wives, can you have a five some, or even a 3 some?
What authorities justify your answer @Alph? Roflmao..Alpha come here.  @tycho the answer is no. Unlike other religions, Islam came to restore honour to women. I'm sure you've come across this verse 1 Timothy 2:11 which tells you not to open your mouth mbele ya wanaume. @essyk and what you're laughing at is your Western lifestyle which you're busy admiring, the "Westernization", which is actually a disguise form of exploitation of the women body, deprivation of honour, and degrading of soul, through those naked women sitting on billboards, naked women selling everything even chocolate bar, toothpaste, everything... You can't tell me that does not represent sexual exploitation A muslim man denying his wives an N-some because of the book of Timothy would be a disaster in my opinion. Wanaeza mwekelea bonoko ya 'apostasy'. And in any case, the authority is about telling the woman to shut up and follow the man. So it's up to the man to say, 'Hivi ndio kutaenda leo...' Does the Quran have something on this...? No Muslim relies on the book of Timothy. Read the post properly. Two ways this is haram: (1). From the definition of three some or five some... The act will qualify as homosexuality or lesbianism which is haram is Islam, It is shamelessness. If wives do not touch each other sexually, then we see next point... (2). If we alter the definition of three some, and say having intercourse with a wife in the presence of another wife who is just present and watching or hearing. This is both against modesty and sinful. It is sin for the wives to see each other's naked body. It is not allowed in Islam if the two women see each other naked. In fact, showing one's awrah or private parts even to members of the same sex is not allowed for both males and females except in cases where there is acute need like a medical emergency. I hope I have answered your question.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:essyk wrote:tycho wrote:An idle question: if you are a Muslim, and you have 4 wives, can you have a five some, or even a 3 some?
What authorities justify your answer @Alph? Roflmao..Alpha come here. @tycho the answer is no. Unlike other religions, Islam came to restore honour to women. I'm sure you've come across this verse 1 Timothy 2:11 which tells you not to open your mouth mbele ya wanaume. @essyk and what you're laughing at is your Western lifestyle which you're busy admiring, the "Westernization", which is actually a disguise form of exploitation of the women body, deprivation of honour, and degrading of soul, through those naked women sitting on billboards, naked women selling everything even chocolate bar, toothpaste, everything... You can't tell me that does not represent sexual exploitation A muslim man denying his wives an N-some because of the book of Timothy would be a disaster in my opinion. Wanaeza mwekelea bonoko ya 'apostasy'. And in any case, the authority is about telling the woman to shut up and follow the man. So it's up to the man to say, 'Hivi ndio kutaenda leo...' Does the Quran have something on this...? No Muslim relies on the book of Timothy. Read the post properly. Two ways this is haram: (1). From the definition of three some or five some... The act will qualify as homosexuality or lesbianism which is haram is Islam, It is shamelessness. If wives do not touch each other sexually, then we see next point... (2). If we alter the definition of three some, and say having intercourse with a wife in the presence of another wife who is just present and watching or hearing. This is both against modesty and sinful. It is sin for the wives to see each other's naked body. It is not allowed in Islam if the two women see each other naked. In fact, showing one's awrah or private parts even to members of the same sex is not allowed for both males and females except in cases where there is acute need like a medical emergency. I hope I have answered your question. How many wives do you have @alph?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:essyk wrote:tycho wrote:An idle question: if you are a Muslim, and you have 4 wives, can you have a five some, or even a 3 some?
What authorities justify your answer @Alph? Roflmao..Alpha come here. @tycho the answer is no. Unlike other religions, Islam came to restore honour to women. I'm sure you've come across this verse 1 Timothy 2:11 which tells you not to open your mouth mbele ya wanaume. @essyk and what you're laughing at is your Western lifestyle which you're busy admiring, the "Westernization", which is actually a disguise form of exploitation of the women body, deprivation of honour, and degrading of soul, through those naked women sitting on billboards, naked women selling everything even chocolate bar, toothpaste, everything... You can't tell me that does not represent sexual exploitation A muslim man denying his wives an N-some because of the book of Timothy would be a disaster in my opinion. Wanaeza mwekelea bonoko ya 'apostasy'. And in any case, the authority is about telling the woman to shut up and follow the man. So it's up to the man to say, 'Hivi ndio kutaenda leo...' Does the Quran have something on this...? No Muslim relies on the book of Timothy. Read the post properly. Two ways this is haram: (1). From the definition of three some or five some... The act will qualify as homosexuality or lesbianism which is haram is Islam, It is shamelessness. If wives do not touch each other sexually, then we see next point... (2). If we alter the definition of three some, and say having intercourse with a wife in the presence of another wife who is just present and watching or hearing. This is both against modesty and sinful. It is sin for the wives to see each other's naked body. It is not allowed in Islam if the two women see each other naked. In fact, showing one's awrah or private parts even to members of the same sex is not allowed for both males and females except in cases where there is acute need like a medical emergency. I hope I have answered your question. How many wives do you have @alph? I still have vacancies... the limit is 4 wives maximum. There is a condition to polygamy as stated in the Qur'an 4:3: " ...marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one..."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,297
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? Depend on which eyes you are using.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? @tycho, good question! But a tough one indeed...   let me consult and get back to you 
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? @tycho, good question! But a tough one indeed... let me consult and get back to you Tycho &Alphadoti, I have consulted and it's okay to screw all the women as long as they cannot see the nakedness of each other, if they are not blind, use a blindfold. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? @tycho, good question! But a tough one indeed... let me consult and get back to you Tycho &Alphadoti, I have consulted and it's okay to screw all the women as long as they cannot see the nakedness of each other, if they are not blind, use a blindfold. @tycho, first understand that intimacy between husband and wife is very sacred in Islam. It is not appropriate for a Muslim to lower himself to such a level. Secondly, having intercourse with one wife in the presence of the other(s), even if they are covered with a blanket and he starts, and the movements can be seen, or the sounds can be heard, or even if she cannot hear but the other(s) is aware of what is going on... it is haram. This is vile and despicable and is not appropriate, and it does not become permissible even if they agree to it. Thirdly, regarding this matter,it is haram for husband to have intercourse with his wife in view of anyone, unless the onlooker is a child who does not understand what is happening; in this case it does not matter. But if the child or anyone in that matter understands what is happening then intercourse should not take place, even if he is a child, because a child may speak about what he has seen unintentionally. I hope this closes this matter?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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ION, Saudi arabia has allowed women to drive .....and go to the cinema. http://www.bbc.com/news/...ld-middle-east-43738718
 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:Swenani wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? @tycho, good question! But a tough one indeed... let me consult and get back to you Tycho &Alphadoti, I have consulted and it's okay to screw all the women as long as they cannot see the nakedness of each other, if they are not blind, use a blindfold. @tycho, first understand that intimacy between husband and wife is very sacred in Islam. It is not appropriate for a Muslim to lower himself to such a level. Secondly, having intercourse with one wife in the presence of the other(s), even if they are covered with a blanket and he starts, and the movements can be seen, or the sounds can be heard, or even if she cannot hear but the other(s) is aware of what is going on... it is haram. This is vile and despicable and is not appropriate, and it does not become permissible even if they agree to it. Thirdly, regarding this matter,it is haram for husband to have intercourse with his wife in view of anyone, unless the onlooker is a child who does not understand what is happening; in this case it does not matter. But if the child or anyone in that matter understands what is happening then intercourse should not take place, even if he is a child, because a child may speak about what he has seen unintentionally. I hope this closes this matter? Not just in islam but also in our african societies. Intimacy/intercourse should strictly be a private affair between 2 people. Even our polygamous forefathers had a thingira/simba where each wife would bring him "food" at her appointed time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Swenani wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? @tycho, good question! But a tough one indeed... let me consult and get back to you Tycho &Alphadoti, I have consulted and it's okay to screw all the women as long as they cannot see the nakedness of each other, if they are not blind, use a blindfold. @tycho, first understand that intimacy between husband and wife is very sacred in Islam. It is not appropriate for a Muslim to lower himself to such a level. Secondly, having intercourse with one wife in the presence of the other(s), even if they are covered with a blanket and he starts, and the movements can be seen, or the sounds can be heard, or even if she cannot hear but the other(s) is aware of what is going on... it is haram. This is vile and despicable and is not appropriate, and it does not become permissible even if they agree to it. Thirdly, regarding this matter,it is haram for husband to have intercourse with his wife in view of anyone, unless the onlooker is a child who does not understand what is happening; in this case it does not matter. But if the child or anyone in that matter understands what is happening then intercourse should not take place, even if he is a child, because a child may speak about what he has seen unintentionally. I hope this closes this matter? Not just in islam but also in our african societies. Intimacy/intercourse should strictly be a private affair between 2 people. Even our polygamous forefathers had a thingira/simba where each wife would bring him "food" at her appointed time. @hardwood the question was in the context of Islam. But I agree with you 100% that this is not limited, but cuts across many cultures.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Swenani wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This is for @tycho: the evidence in the Religion (source is Quran and Sunnah):
It was narrated from 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri from his father that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "No woman should look at the nakedness of another woman, and no man should look at the nakedness of another man." (Ibn Majah)
And: "A man should not see the private parts of another man, and a woman should not see the private parts of another woman, and a man should not lie with another man under one covering, and a woman should not lie with another woman under one covering” (Sunan Abu Dawud)
So 3 some is haram (not allowed) for a woman to show herself naked to a man except for her husband. She is not allowed to show her nakedness to another woman.
I hope that answers your question. Well then, what would happen if all women are either blind, or blindfolded? In at least the scenario of an n-some? @tycho, good question! But a tough one indeed... let me consult and get back to you Tycho &Alphadoti, I have consulted and it's okay to screw all the women as long as they cannot see the nakedness of each other, if they are not blind, use a blindfold. @tycho, first understand that intimacy between husband and wife is very sacred in Islam. It is not appropriate for a Muslim to lower himself to such a level. Secondly, having intercourse with one wife in the presence of the other(s), even if they are covered with a blanket and he starts, and the movements can be seen, or the sounds can be heard, or even if she cannot hear but the other(s) is aware of what is going on... it is haram. This is vile and despicable and is not appropriate, and it does not become permissible even if they agree to it. Thirdly, regarding this matter,it is haram for husband to have intercourse with his wife in view of anyone, unless the onlooker is a child who does not understand what is happening; in this case it does not matter. But if the child or anyone in that matter understands what is happening then intercourse should not take place, even if he is a child, because a child may speak about what he has seen unintentionally. I hope this closes this matter? Not just in islam but also in our african societies. Intimacy/intercourse should strictly be a private affair between 2 people. Even our polygamous forefathers had a thingira/simba where each wife would bring him "food" at her appointed time. @hardwood the question was in the context of Islam. But I agree with you 100% that this is not limited, but cuts across many cultures. Cultures, preferences, values, morals etc change based on context Some believe we were chimpanzees/monkeys before we changed/evolved into human beings sembuse sex preferences? The only thing that is static is a penis and vagina even change changes If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Alph, why are you in a hurry to close this matter?
Also notice how your authorities have changed from definite and literal quotes to anecdotal-opinion... What are the implications?
If you and @hardwood agree 100% then does that mean that your points of agreement are universal truths? And if this is not the case, how would a cross cultural and disjunctive communication proceed?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Yes... it's for eating  All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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