First is the visit where the boy and his friends go to declare that they have seen 'something' they like in the home. They are then given a date to come with wazees.

Second they go to racia although in days past they used to go and 'handa ithigi' before the kuracia day. Nowadays it's done together unless the girl is pregnant then they must go and handa. In kuracia, the dowry is set and part paid then they are allowed to announce a wedding date.

Thirdly the girls side visits the boys to see the itaara. If acceptable to the girls side then the wedding is given.

Now you are not expected to pay the entire dowry because if you clear then you might never visit your the in-laws that's why they say that you should never complete even if you are wealthy.

@sansa, some info is better served by a kamzee under the influence

I'm quite young to give such advice, but basically after the custom marriage (mwatì na harika stage), you open a "kìara" where you be depositing the bride price every so often.

Culmination ya hii process ni uzeeni with a ceremony called "gùtinia kìande".

Please don't just pop in to your inlaws to give them cash and think it's bride price. There are some 1 or 2 things to take into consideration.

As said again, tafuta some knowledgeable kamzae and wet his throat thoroughly.

Then English; dowry is what the inlaws give to the groom, not vice versa (but a practiced custom in Kikuyus-including "kuona itara"). Wacheni kuconfuse watu

After kuracia is ngurario.
This is the actual marriage ceremony of the kikuyu and it involved the husband cutting off the front limb of a lamb and giving it to the wife... (hiyo ndio gutinia kiande)... it signifies alot of stuff but I would put it at a similar point to the marriage vows in a Christian Wedding.

This issue of dowry never ends in the literal sense is meant to encourage the husband to maintain a connection the family of his wife so that he and his family will be henceforth invited whenever there is an occasion (wedding, funeral, etc.. ). It also signifies that he is actually expected to contribute positively to the well being of the in-laws.

Strictly speaking, sio deni.

But one of my uncles had made it a habit to contribute a goat every December to my grand pa (on my mother's side), I had a conversation about it with my old man and he clarified that it could be any gift even just a bag of groceries once in a while, just don't feel obligated.

you seem to have a fine grasp of the issue, can you clarify on this 'kirugu' thing mentioned above.

Stealing kidney to cover for unpaid dowry

I hope you cleared dowry lest your kidney is stolen

[quoteLocal media report that the West Bengal woman's husband arranged an appendicitis surgery when she was suffering stomach pain two year ago.

Late in 2017, two separate medical examinations revealed she was in fact missing one of her kidneys.

She alleges that her husband had frequently made demands for a dowry.

The payment of dowries - traditionally paid from a bride's family to a husband's - has been banned in India since 1961.][/quote]

Great news for those of us who hate both FGM and "paying" for another human being....

For the first time in a long time I agree with what you've said and how you've said it!

Especially the rationale. It's just a way of making money, period!!

You read Jomo Kenyatta's Facing Mount Kenya(written in 1938 when people were still by and large following traditions) and you'll see how far people who claim to keep their traditions have wandered from them.

Among the Agikuyu, there was female circumcision, adultery(where you allowed people of your age-group to copulate with your wife when visiting),prayer and sacrifice to ancestors, divination through medicinemen and use of potions to gain love(Jomo says he used it once and it worked!), raiding for cattle and women esp against Maasai, non-penetrative intercourse was also allowed for young men and women after initiation

I see people claiming how true to traditions they are because they have been admitted into men's council and wonder what they mean. Heck, even their kids can't speak a word in their mother tongue and they are proud of it!

What is the process for reporting theft of someone's daughter who is already pregnant?

What are you expected to do or say when you get to their home?

We should go back to all our traditions as they were precolonialism. All the traditions had a reason whether relating to birth, circumcision, marriage, death etc and had evolved over thousands of years. The traditions, culture and customs ensured a cohesive and prosperous society until the mzungu appeared on the horizon about 100yrs ago and termed our whole system upusi and as a people imposed on us the law and traditions of the english people living thousands of kilometers away. Is an englishman living in a village in rural manchester more superior to an okuyu living in a village in muranga? Right now a man from a muranga village cant travel to rural china and tell the china man that his traditions, including worshiping budha, are ushenzi.

Of all the colonised peoples of the world they all kept their traditions, culture and customs, from asia, india, arabia, latin america, pacific etc but mwafrika was brainwashed and abandoned all that he was doing and followed mzungu just like a dog follows its master.

Most of the problems were are facing today as a people are because we abandoned our traditions and culture. Cultures that said theft, prostitution, sex before marriage, alcoholism, murder etc were bad and were punished within the society. We had a judicial system where elders (who had earned their stripes) adjudicated over all cases within the society from murder to theft to land disputes etc. The initiation process for both boys and girls at about 18yrs, which involved a cut and thorough training/induction, ensured that we turned them into respectable and responsible men and women in the society who understood their roles and responsibilities in the society. Sad that as per the engish law that was imposed on us all you have to do nowadays once you are 18 is rush to the chief's office and acquire a piece of paper called an ID and claim to be an adult - now that circumcision was turned from a cultural to a surgical procedure and you may have been cut at the hospital at 12 yrs after finishing std 8, and at the hospital they just cut and dont teach you how to be a man.

My point again is that we go back to our culture and traditions, what we did before the little man from england arrived in 1800s and changed our ways.

You two want us to blindly follow PCEA and its gods, and discard our cultures coz of this and that contradiction. First tell us the corruption and power struggles in that PCEA. Allow me to be Alma this time.

You two have no moral authority whatsoever. You are essentially very intolerant hypocrites, sth very close to that woman Guru.