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Mjengo ianze! Penny-Stocker and other gurus, help!
MugundaMan
#41 Posted : Saturday, January 20, 2018 9:28:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Fyatu,
Another option if you are really hell bent on going with a construction company is to go precast. You will get way more than a skele for 1.6m



More here
webish
#42 Posted : Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:17:21 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 671
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
Fyatu,
Another option if you are really hell bent on going with a construction company is to go precast. You will get way more than a skele for 1.6m



More here


What does pre-cast actually mean? or Entail?
What's done on site and what isn't.

Life is joy, death is peace, but the transition is very difficult.
Fyatu
#43 Posted : Saturday, January 20, 2018 6:16:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
MugundaMan wrote:
Fyatu,
Another option if you are really hell bent on going with a construction company is to go precast. You will get way more than a skele for 1.6m



More here


Thanks @MugundaMan
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
Mkimwa
#44 Posted : Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:12:32 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2008
Posts: 380
Fyatu wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Fyatu,
Another option if you are really hell bent on going with a construction company is to go precast. You will get way more than a skele for 1.6m



More here


Thanks @MugundaMan


Has anyone seen this at work? Seems pretty easy, and with the short time to construct, it looks like ABC for banks to finance.
Thitifini
#45 Posted : Sunday, January 21, 2018 5:26:36 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
Still maintain an independent professional is necessary. Practical example;

I had a kaplot with "red murram soil". When I was starting kuweka fence (at house design stage),the engineer requested a visit (which naturally I was against, coz this is just a simple fence ama....).

The engineer, with a simple look at the soil, demanded we do some more analysis befors proceeding. Being a novice in this area I reluctantly obliged (drawings were submitted to kanjo for approval around this time).

He later mumbled some sentences but requested I start with the Septic structure just so we "confirm soil profile".

Turns out the red soil was a "false red soil" with cotton soil below it (how is that possible btw?).

At the end we had to change the foundation to the floating foundation by boring shafts and using piles. Very costly!!!! But neighbours are doing/done their thing on the red soil.....I don't want to mention what they are going through!

Somehow my area is surrounded by other areas which have the red soil and rock below it!

Well, not to mention that that ka-fundi (who I fired later) had said that "all coffee areas have very compact volcanic red soil, be assured, nimenjenga mingi sana huku"!!!

On the professional tax, I reserved 100k but so far he has not exhausted it, na nko karibu roof....

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
limanika
#46 Posted : Monday, January 22, 2018 8:29:24 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
obiero wrote:
Swenani wrote:
obiero wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Gathige wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market

then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board.


Kigangio,
I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture Laughing out loudly but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws.



@Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect.


Not all constructions projects require a full time architect and structural engineer on site. A pay rate per visit is more convenient for small projects than having a full time architect and structural engineer on site.

Aacheni maringo na kujibeba

The difference between a stable building and one prone to collapses may be a few bags of cement and a couple of ill tied columns


I have seen reinforcement being brought down on recommendation of a structural engineer hired per visit. They come assess any reinforcement before any koroga is done.

My point is that not all buildings require a full time architect and structural engineer.Whether you accept it or not, this is the reality, many small scale developers and households don't have these professionals full time, they are paid per visit.Which is reasonable and acceptable to me but that's my personal view

I don’t think we are saying different things. What I am against is the one who said professionals mean nothing! @mugundaman to be precise

@mugundaman, kaigangio, both of you are right and wrong. Pablo's advise helps you control costs. Hence is of great help and for simple projects you may not have to rely on professionals on matters cost. However Pablo never advised that you cut off the professionals. You still need the Architect and Engineers to design for you. Not everybody will understand architectural / engineering drawings, hence you still need the professionals to come to site periodically to check the work against the drawings.
Musimo
#47 Posted : Monday, January 22, 2018 1:57:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.
Stiffler
#48 Posted : Monday, January 22, 2018 7:20:19 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/7/2017
Posts: 186
Location: Nairobi
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Well put
hardwood
#49 Posted : Monday, January 22, 2018 10:10:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
When you are unwell you see a doctor, not the nurse. When putting up a building you engage an architect and engineer. NB the building will outlive you and your children thus you should do things right.
hardwood
#50 Posted : Monday, January 22, 2018 10:13:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
MugundaMan wrote:
Fyatu,
Another option if you are really hell bent on going with a construction company is to go precast. You will get way more than a skele for 1.6m



More here


"Leaving Room"?????
muandiwambeu
#51 Posted : Tuesday, January 23, 2018 5:53:59 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
Fyatu wrote:
Where can i find a directory of professional building contractors for a small scale project( a 60 by 40 ft house) in Nairobi and its environs? Is there a website or sorts? Any recommendations?

I have not seen one @fytu. Drop Ur mail, I be ur number one. @marjas we do great work. You could as well visit your local NCA offices and they ought to sort you out with a list of registered tenderprenuers or kibaomenLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly smile Pray
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
muandiwambeu
#52 Posted : Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:08:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.

You have tried.
But to supplement you.
1. Have your drawings and designs done by a credible professional. Normally, appoint a project manager. Architect and engineer must do atleast a visit at this stage.
2. Have each professional design an inspection schedule for the project. Ie inspection card.
3. Negotiate your charges with the building technical team.
4. Note, like doctors, Engineers, architects, QS are not lazybodies of late. Be present or be responsibly be represented on site at each site visit. There will always be conflicts to be resolved and its not the professionals mandatory duty to follow up your hustles.
5. If you are keen to instructions, discounts galore is what I give you. I have enough hustle to do, rather than be on every site now and fighting your class 3 drop out know it all thug(fundi) just for me to go and drawn my stressed eyes with your cheaply financed changaa and ruin my jalopy, my programs and my liver.
Its the professionals duty to let you know of critical inspection stages during development of your building. Always get a localised/ ie locally available consultant at least one, where possible. You may not have to think of fuelling a fleet of fuel guzzlers and after many not available calls
6.Some aspects of finishings are personal appeal and orderous to capture for basic consultation fees and level of customisation of design tools, market arvessness, availability etc etc to dwell on. You need it, I charge an extra dime and you buy a mbuzi for me to spend my time with u shopping for you or getting you samples. It can be hefty if you need to know.
7. Your project conn-nsultant (manager, foreman, lead fundi, clerk of works, storekeeper) will do you or roast you at will. Luv them and they bring you red roses everyday.
Good foundation setting day. This has been a good January. Six candy projects and not end month yet.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
Musimo
#53 Posted : Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:03:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
muandiwambeu wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.

You have tried.
But to supplement you.
1. Have your drawings and designs done by a credible professional. Normally, appoint a project manager. Architect and engineer must do atleast a visit at this stage.
2. Have each professional design an inspection schedule for the project. Ie inspection card.
3. Negotiate your charges with the building technical team.
4. Note, like doctors, Engineers, architects, QS are not lazybodies of late. Be present or be responsibly be represented on site at each site visit. There will always be conflicts to be resolved and its not the professionals mandatory duty to follow up your hustles.
5. If you are keen to instructions, discounts galore is what I give you. I have enough hustle to do, rather than be on every site now and fighting your class 3 drop out know it all thug(fundi) just for me to go and drawn my stressed eyes with your cheaply financed changaa and ruin my jalopy, my programs and my liver.
Its the professionals duty to let you know of critical inspection stages during development of your building. Always get a localised/ ie locally available consultant at least one, where possible. You may not have to think of fuelling a fleet of fuel guzzlers and after many not available calls
6.Some aspects of finishings are personal appeal and orderous to capture for basic consultation fees and level of customisation of design tools, market arvessness, availability etc etc to dwell on. You need it, I charge an extra dime and you buy a mbuzi for me to spend my time with u shopping for you or getting you samples. It can be hefty if you need to know.
7. Your project conn-nsultant (manager, foreman, lead fundi, clerk of works, storekeeper) will do you or roast you at will. Luv them and they bring you red roses everyday.
Good foundation setting day. This has been a good January. Six candy projects and not end month yet.


I left most of that out because before, construction professionals had been associated with a waste of money, had to define what our role is especially for smaller construction works like building a house. But thanks for expounding some more for the naysayers.
MugundaMan
#54 Posted : Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:28:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Good tips brother. We need more posts like these. lakini hiyo bei yenu punguza kiasi kiasi. For a simple maisonette that is daylight robbery.
madhaquer
#55 Posted : Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:50:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
All architects understand that their clients are looking to save costs.
Be honest with him, inform him of how you intend to manage the project. Introduce him to your foreman and ask him to interview him and give you his opinion of the guy. after that divide the project into phases and invite him to come and inspect the progress and give his comments.

I have done it and it has worked for me in 2 projects. In each case I had a different architect. One thing I observed with this guys is that they tend to be busy handling multiple projects so they are willing to pop in for a couple of hours once every few weeks as per your schedule and that can be paid on a per visit basis.

Once the roofing and plumbing/septics is complete, you really don't need them for the interior. The interior is actually one of the most expensive parts and this is mainly governed by choice of finishing.

hth
sanity
#56 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 6:38:14 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
Musimo wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.

You have tried.
But to supplement you.
1. Have your drawings and designs done by a credible professional. Normally, appoint a project manager. Architect and engineer must do atleast a visit at this stage.
2. Have each professional design an inspection schedule for the project. Ie inspection card.
3. Negotiate your charges with the building technical team.
4. Note, like doctors, Engineers, architects, QS are not lazybodies of late. Be present or be responsibly be represented on site at each site visit. There will always be conflicts to be resolved and its not the professionals mandatory duty to follow up your hustles.
5. If you are keen to instructions, discounts galore is what I give you. I have enough hustle to do, rather than be on every site now and fighting your class 3 drop out know it all thug(fundi) just for me to go and drawn my stressed eyes with your cheaply financed changaa and ruin my jalopy, my programs and my liver.
Its the professionals duty to let you know of critical inspection stages during development of your building. Always get a localised/ ie locally available consultant at least one, where possible. You may not have to think of fuelling a fleet of fuel guzzlers and after many not available calls
6.Some aspects of finishings are personal appeal and orderous to capture for basic consultation fees and level of customisation of design tools, market arvessness, availability etc etc to dwell on. You need it, I charge an extra dime and you buy a mbuzi for me to spend my time with u shopping for you or getting you samples. It can be hefty if you need to know.
7. Your project conn-nsultant (manager, foreman, lead fundi, clerk of works, storekeeper) will do you or roast you at will. Luv them and they bring you red roses everyday.
Good foundation setting day. This has been a good January. Six candy projects and not end month yet.


I left most of that out because before, construction professionals had been associated with a waste of money, had to define what our role is especially for smaller construction works like building a house. But thanks for expounding some more for the naysayers.


Even as you involve them..be informed of what you are getting into..These Professionals will milk you dry even before you start your project.
Hope is not a strategy
Musimo
#57 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:09:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
sanity wrote:

Even as you involve them..be informed of what you are getting into..These Professionals will milk you dry even before you start your project.


Currently it costs somewhere between 30k and 50k per square metre for a good finish to a house, and most built areas for houses are in the region of 150-200 square metres. We are talking max. 10 million on that house. We have 2, max 3 professionals to be paid a total 250k max (2.5% of total project cost) for their services, thus removing most of your risk, assuming you will listen to them. Can this be referred to as getting milked really? How much would you want to pay the professional? Are you assuming that they do no work to get you the blueprints and sign the indemnity form provided by the local council, deliver design calculations and get approvals for you?
Sometimes I pity professionals in our country, no one wants to pay them for their work but whenever a negative event happens in their field fingers are all pointed at them.
Musimo
#58 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:18:37 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Good tips brother. We need more posts like these. lakini hiyo bei yenu punguza kiasi kiasi. For a simple maisonette that is daylight robbery.


Compare the expected costs vis-a-vis the cost of the engineer, architect, QS. Remember they also have families to feed and bills to pay, and sometimes there are no clients for months (case in point, last year was f-ed up due to political situation and the fact that no one wanted to spend in such a climate due to its unknown end date.)
Optionally, request the engineer to charge an amount based on square area to be built (something like sh. 750/sq.m for areas less than 50sq. m, sh500/sq.m for areas more than 50sq.m. But also expect him to charge you for any printing works to be undertaken on your project. Something along those lines.
Musimo
#59 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:21:39 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
Musimo wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Good tips brother. We need more posts like these. lakini hiyo bei yenu punguza kiasi kiasi. For a simple maisonette that is daylight robbery.


Compare the expected costs vis-a-vis the cost of the engineer, architect, QS. Remember they also have families to feed and bills to pay, and sometimes there are no clients for months (case in point, last year was f-ed up due to political situation and the fact that no one wanted to spend in such a climate due to its unknown end date.) I personally worked on 4 projects all year pre-election, with some 2-5 planned post august 8th. None of the post-election projects kicked off. That is how hard the year was.
Optionally, request the engineer to charge an amount based on square area to be built (something like sh. 750/sq.m for areas less than 50sq. m, sh500/sq.m for areas more than 50sq.m. But also expect him to charge you for any printing works to be undertaken on your project. Something along those lines.

Swenani
#60 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:31:46 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Musimo wrote:
sanity wrote:

Even as you involve them..be informed of what you are getting into..These Professionals will milk you dry even before you start your project.


Currently it costs somewhere between 30k and 50k per square metre for a good finish to a house, and most built areas for houses are in the region of 150-200 square metres. We are talking max. 10 million on that house. We have 2, max 3 professionals to be paid a total 250k max (2.5% of total project cost) for their services, thus removing most of your risk, assuming you will listen to them. Can this be referred to as getting milked really? How much would you want to pay the professional? Are you assuming that they do no work to get you the blueprints and sign the indemnity form provided by the local council, deliver design calculations and get approvals for you?
Sometimes I pity professionals in our country, no one wants to pay them for their work but whenever a negative event happens in their field fingers are all pointed at them.


50K PSM is not a good finish but high end finish my friend with profit margin of 20-25%. Most Nairobians wako between 20K-30KPSM
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