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Cytonn Investments
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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sparkly wrote:Many developers have un-taken units. There is demand but few can afford to buy. Neither being too clever nor too foolish, as Whispers (RIP) used to say, my understanding of the above is that "many investors" in this field have invested in a section of the property market experiencing a glut while the wizards at Cytonn Investments early on identified and invested in sections currently experiencing high demand, has a low supply, and with clients with deep enough pockets for them to afford the units. How well am I doing?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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aemathenge wrote:sparkly wrote:Many developers have un-taken units. There is demand but few can afford to buy. Neither being too clever nor too foolish, as Whispers (RIP) used to say, my understanding of the above is that "many investors" in this field have invested in a section of the property market experiencing a glut while the wizards at Cytonn Investments early on identified and invested in sections currently experiencing high demand, has a low supply, and with clients with deep enough pockets for them to afford the units. How well am I doing? You are doing well so far. Just a few dots to connect. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/16/2017 Posts: 20
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It's a stretch to go from "market is cooling off" to "he's making losses in his investments". I think there is still profit to be made but the scale is lower either due to less units moving or lower profit per unit. I agree we are not seeing a bubble in the typical sense but volume seems to be down. I wish someone would start publishing these statistics on a regular basis (based on closed sales, not listed properties) aemathenge wrote:Vj wrote:since the property market is cooling off Forgive me, if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you have made losses in your property market investments and therefore figure that anybody else not making such losses is, to quote your signature, "Young and Stupid" in believing they can make significant profits. According to the Cytonn Investments' weekly report, on the other hand, the huge gains attributed to investments in the property market are not a bubble but something else altogether. Extracts from the said report have this to say: Source Link:Quote:The key indicators of a bubble are:
i. More people taking on more debt.
However, in Kenya today, the key constraint is access to credit as the government is crowding out the private sector given the 2016 interests rate cap law.
For instance, mortgage accounts were reported to have decreased by 1.5% by December 2016 to 24,085 from 24,458 the same period in 2015,
ii. Relaxed lending standards.
Despite the Kenyan government lowering interests rates, institutions have tightened their credit supply to the private sector, especially for long-term loans such as mortgages, as evidenced by the slowdown in private sector credit growth, at 2.0% in October 2017 compared to 4.6% in October 2016 and 19.5% in October 2015,
iii. Historically low interest rates.
From our case studies, interest rates declined to below 7%. In Kenya, The Bank Amendment Act of 2015 capped bank lending rates to a maximum of 14.0%, which is 4% above the Central Bank Rate that has remained at 10% throughout 2017,
iv. High demand from high levels of speculation.
Unlike in a bubble where most of the demand is driven by speculators, in Kenyan the demand is driven by real demand, which is estimated to be at least 200,000 units p.a.
v. Incredible rise in house prices.
As is evidenced in our case studies, a housing bubble is characterized by most often than not, a triple digit growth in prices and as per the IMF standards, the decline in a bust must be at least 14% over a period of 16 quarters.
In Kenya however, the prices are growing, albeit softening, with 2016 recording an average appreciation rate of 7.4%, which slowed to 3.8% in 2017, as per the Cytonn Residential Report 2017.
From the above it is clear that the real estate sector in Kenya is not in a bubble based on the five indicators.
(Instead) The sector is experiencing the normal real estate cycles, and the rapid price increments being witnessed are a result of low supply and high demand.
Thus, it still presents attractive opportunities for investors.
In other words, you assert the property market is cooling off and proceed to accuse Cytonn of naivety while Cytonn Investments Analysts think otherwise and in fact take the opposite view. Please tell me I am wrong.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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Jon_Gray wrote:It's a stretch to go from "market is cooling off" to "he's making losses in his investments". I think there is still profit to be made but the scale is lower either due to less units moving or lower profit per unit.
I agree we are not seeing a bubble in the typical sense but volume seems to be down. I wish someone would start publishing these statistics on a regular basis (based on closed sales, not listed properties) My point here is that there are two perceptions about the property market. On one hand, certain investors "still (have) profits to make but the scale is lower yada, yada, yada". On the other hand there is Cytonn Investments who perceive that the huge profits they are making within the property market is not a bubble per se but something else entirely. In other words, there are the losers and there is a winner. Should this be true, then shouldn't we be investing in Cytonn Investments to enjoy and profit from their perceived wizardly in this particular "lucrative" investment? Pray do tell.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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Jon_Gray wrote:It's a stretch to go from "market is cooling off" to "he's making losses in his investments". I think there is still profit to be made but the scale is lower either due to less units moving or lower profit per unit.
I agree we are not seeing a bubble in the typical sense but volume seems to be down. I wish someone would start publishing these statistics on a regular basis (based on closed sales, not listed properties) In view of the above, neither being too clever, nor being too foolish, I am of the opinion that there are losers and winners. Question is, should we be moaning about the losers without congratulating the winners and their investors? Copy and Paste Extract:Quote:The Kenya National Bureau of Statistics (KNBS) has released the Q3'2017 GDP Report, indicating that the Kenyan economy grew by 4.4% in Q3'2017, down from 5.6% in Q3'2016 on account of slower growth in most sectors due to political uncertainty that prevailed following the prolonged election period.
Growth in the agriculture, manufacturing and finance & insurance sectors declined to 3.1%, 2.1% and 2.4% from 3.8%, 4.4% and 7.1% in Q3'2016.
Key to note is that real estate sector growth improved to 8.9% from 8.5% recorded in Q3'2016.
Source Link: LinkedIn Live FeedPray do tell.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:Swenani wrote:the deal wrote:Swenani wrote:Ignorance should attract capital punishment It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that? Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari  .@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land. I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely. Explanation for staff costs Wapi cash flow statement? Cash is King for any business. Appreciated unrealised gains is a virtual profit. How much profit does home afrika have in its books Tracking..
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:Swenani wrote:the deal wrote:Swenani wrote:Ignorance should attract capital punishment It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that? Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari .@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land. I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely. Explanation for staff costs Wapi cash flow statement? Cash is King for any business. Appreciated unrealised gains is a virtual profit. How much profit does home afrika have in its books Tracking..
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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This one will make Home Afrika look like child's play... Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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KulaRaha wrote:This one will make Home Afrika look like child's play... The market wont be kind at all.. It shall fall from KES 60 to a penny stock in the first month. They better stay away from the exchange
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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We are waiting for it kabisa In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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Imagine ati that entrant trading higher than COOP, EQUITY & KCB.. Same way KURWITU lists at KES 1,500 per share but no single notable trade since listing
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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The AGM is on 18th may 2018 and listing in the GEMS is part of the Agenda. I plan to attend this event. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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BGL wrote:The AGM is on 18th may 2018 and listing in the GEMS is part of the Agenda.
I plan to attend this event.
It would be OK to read this in preparation for the Q&A https://www.kahawatungu....tionable-scare-everyone/
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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obiero wrote:[quote=BGL]The AGM is on 18th may 2018 and listing in the GEMS is part of the Agenda.
I plan to attend this event.
It would be OK to read this in preparation for the Q&A https://www.kahawatungu....ionable-scare-everyone/[/quote]  History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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@BGL make sure you let us know of the AGM resolutions
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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obiero wrote:@BGL make sure you let us know of the AGM resolutions If you want, i can post them here because they will be passed. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
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BGL wrote:obiero wrote:@BGL make sure you let us know of the AGM resolutions If you want, i can post them here because they will be passed. @BGL will appreciate
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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obiero wrote:BGL wrote:obiero wrote:@BGL make sure you let us know of the AGM resolutions If you want, i can post them here because they will be passed. @BGL will appreciate your email History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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obiero wrote:BGL wrote:obiero wrote:@BGL make sure you let us know of the AGM resolutions If you want, i can post them here because they will be passed. @BGL will appreciate Quote:SHAREHOLDERS NOTICE:
NOTICE OF THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING - CYTONN INVESTMENTS MANAGEMENT PLC (Incorporated in Kenya under the Companies Act, No. 17 of 2015, Laws of Kenya) (Registration Number CPU/2017/220478) To the Shareholders of Cytonn Investments Management Plc: NOTICE is hereby given that the Annual General Meeting of Cytonn Investments Management Plc, hereinafter ‘the Company’, shall be held on Friday 18th May 2018 at 7.30 A.M. at Radisson Blu Hotel- Upperhill, to conduct the following Business: AGENDA Constitution of the Meeting: To read the Notice convening the Meeting, table the proxies and record the presence of a quorum. ORDINARY BUSINESS To ratify the appointment of Prof. Olive Mugenda to the Board of Directors of Cytonn Investments Management Plc. To ratify the remuneration of the Directors for the year ended 31st December 2017. To receive, consider and if approved, adopt the audited financial statements for the year ended 31st December 2017, together with the Chairman’s, Directors’ and Auditors’ reports thereon. To note that the Auditors, Grant Thornton Kenya, being eligible and having expressed their willingness, will continue in office and to authorize the Directors to fix their remuneration. SPECIAL RESOLUTIONS To consider, and if thought fit, to pass the following resolutions as Special Resolutions:
THAT the proposed listing by introduction of the Company’s shares on the Growth Enterprise Market Segment of the Nairobi Securities Exchange (hereinafter “the Listing”), subject to all regulatory approvals, including approval from the Nairobi Securities Exchange, be and is hereby approved;
THAT the Board of Directors and all officers of the Company, be and are hereby authorized to take or cause to be taken all actions necessary or advisable to effect the Listing including the preparation, execution and filling of all necessary applications, documents, forms and agreements with the Nairobi Securities Exchange, seeking any and all regulatory approvals and the payment of filling, listing or application fees;
THAT conditional to receipt of all necessary approvals from the Nairobi Securities Exchange, the Memorandum and Articles are proposed to be amended, and new Articles as shared on www.cytonn.com/investor-...ons/shareholders-updates shall be adopted post Listing. To consider any other business for which due notice has been given: Presentation to Shareholders By Order of the Board Patricia Njeri Wanjama Company Secretary P.O. Box 20695 – 00200 NAIROBI Friday, 27th April 2018 Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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FY2017 https://www.cytonn.com/u...ents-management-plc.pdf
Cashflow statement mjiandikie please, especially since they know 2016 was......... well  Case in Point,2016 Financials 1. Value of Investment property is 10,050,802,365 ...if you insist ,ok fine  2.The 10,050,802,365 is composed of all its properties values ( cost plus fair value gains plus capitalised costs etc)  3. Yet in their cash flow, they include all these. 10,050,802,365 MINUS 5,580,228,113 ..You don't use fair values to calculate cashflow !. Only cash used is factored, i.e they should have used purchase price only for properties acquired in 2016 Total 1,683,400,00. In short cashflow statement is wrong.  this is just an analysis of one line item... Anyway for those who can share the full financials from AGM tomorrow please do.
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