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Cytonn Investments
sparkly
#451 Posted : Monday, December 25, 2017 10:10:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]
Life is short. Live passionately.
murchr
#452 Posted : Monday, December 25, 2017 11:46:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
sparkly wrote:
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]





What happens to the profitability of the company if tomorrow, they are informed that there's an underground sewage leek seeping so the land can only be used as a marsh land?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Horton
#453 Posted : Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:18:27 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]



Very stale tweet. It was adequately addressed on mindspeak hosted by satchu.

Horton
#454 Posted : Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:22:32 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]





What happens to the profitability of the company if tomorrow, they are informed that there's an underground sewage leek seeping so the land can only be used as a marsh land?


Incase you didnt know, they have lots of land, lots of shares in listed and some unlisted companies too. Lots of projects. And they are professionals, they do their homework before going into JVs
sparkly
#455 Posted : Tuesday, December 26, 2017 10:14:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Horton wrote:
murchr wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]





What happens to the profitability of the company if tomorrow, they are informed that there's an underground sewage leek seeping so the land can only be used as a marsh land?


Incase you didnt know, they have lots of land, lots of shares in listed and some unlisted companies too. Lots of projects. And they are professionals, they do their homework before going into JVs


I know their corporate history and nature of their business. I am also well aware of your long running attempts to gag an objective discussion of Cytonn capabilities and Financials on Wazua. Whether you are motivated by vested interest or hubris, be assured that we shall dissect and discuss the company without fear or favor @Horton.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Horton
#456 Posted : Wednesday, December 27, 2017 5:09:55 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Horton wrote:
murchr wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]





What happens to the profitability of the company if tomorrow, they are informed that there's an underground sewage leek seeping so the land can only be used as a marsh land?


Incase you didnt know, they have lots of land, lots of shares in listed and some unlisted companies too. Lots of projects. And they are professionals, they do their homework before going into JVs


I know their corporate history and nature of their business. I am also well aware of your long running attempts to gag an objective discussion of Cytonn capabilities and Financials on Wazua. Whether you are motivated by vested interest or hubris, be assured that we shall dissect and discuss the company without fear or favor @Horton.


Gag?? 😂😂 Are you sure u understand what the word means? I support this company with the same motivation you have for your beloved kengen sir. And rightly so! Why cant I? My motivation is just like yours to Learn and make money.

Sparkly, posting an old tweet that was dealt with is hardly considered “dissecting”.

No one needs my permission to invest here or not but I do eagerly await any skeletons you may find as I have invested here.

In the meantime as people screamed “pyramid” here based on heresay vs “dissecting” this some of us have made 6 times our original amount in 2.5-3 year time frame. Heard mentality will never make you money.
sparkly
#457 Posted : Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:45:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Horton wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Horton wrote:
murchr wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Swenani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Swenani wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:


Ignorance should attract capital punishment

It would be interesting to look at theyre cashflow statement...stripping fair value gains there is an trading loss & why are staff costs so high like that?


Yes, there is trading loss but the example above is like comparing oranges to ferrari smile.@Njooro fails to realize that if there is a price increase in price of land, obviously the price of houses will go up. if you are in real estate biz, the gain in land is an actual gain to your main biz. While I understand @Njoro wanted to make it clear to a layman, the example given is soooooooo wrong since the kiosk trading activity is not related to the price of land.

I'm not an employee but since they've some of my money ,I follow them closely.

Explanation for staff costs


[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/kenyanwalstreet/status/911086089405816832[/tweet]





What happens to the profitability of the company if tomorrow, they are informed that there's an underground sewage leek seeping so the land can only be used as a marsh land?


Incase you didnt know, they have lots of land, lots of shares in listed and some unlisted companies too. Lots of projects. And they are professionals, they do their homework before going into JVs


I know their corporate history and nature of their business. I am also well aware of your long running attempts to gag an objective discussion of Cytonn capabilities and Financials on Wazua. Whether you are motivated by vested interest or hubris, be assured that we shall dissect and discuss the company without fear or favor @Horton.


Gag?? 😂😂 Are you sure u understand what the word means? I support this company with the same motivation you have for your beloved kengen sir. And rightly so! Why cant I? My motivation is just like yours to Learn and make money.

Sparkly, posting an old tweet that was dealt with is hardly considered “dissecting”.

No one needs my permission to invest here or not but I do eagerly await any skeletons you may find as I have invested here.

In the meantime as people screamed “pyramid” here based on heresay vs “dissecting” this some of us have made 6 times our original amount in 2.5-3 year time frame. Heard mentality will never make you money.


As i re-check what gag means, go check what HUBRIS means.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Vj
#458 Posted : Thursday, December 28, 2017 10:05:45 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 9/6/2010
Posts: 97
Location: nairobi, kenya
Its been a while since I posted on Wazua and since the property market is cooling off, I have time to look for my password and post something.

Just an interesting quote from Benjamin Graham:

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. Bright, energetic people, usually quite young, have promised to perform miracles with “other people’s money” since time immemorial. They have usually been able to do it for a while, or at least to appear to have done it,and they have inevitably brought losses to their public in the end."

All the best to Cytonn, they seem to be operating in an entirely different market from the rest of us.
Before you can be be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
aemathenge
#459 Posted : Friday, December 29, 2017 4:16:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Vj wrote:
since the property market is cooling off

Forgive me, if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you have made losses in your property market investments and therefore figure that anybody else not making such losses is, to quote your signature, "Young and Stupid" in believing they can make significant profits.

According to the Cytonn Investments' weekly report, on the other hand, the huge gains attributed to investments in the property market are not a bubble but something else altogether.

Extracts from the said report have this to say:

Source Link:

Quote:
The key indicators of a bubble are:

i. More people taking on more debt.

However, in Kenya today, the key constraint is access to credit as the government is crowding out the private sector given the 2016 interests rate cap law.

For instance, mortgage accounts were reported to have decreased by 1.5% by December 2016 to 24,085 from 24,458 the same period in 2015,

ii. Relaxed lending standards.

Despite the Kenyan government lowering interests rates, institutions have tightened their credit supply to the private sector, especially for long-term loans such as mortgages, as evidenced by the slowdown in private sector credit growth, at 2.0% in October 2017 compared to 4.6% in October 2016 and 19.5% in October 2015,

iii. Historically low interest rates.

From our case studies, interest rates declined to below 7%. In Kenya, The Bank Amendment Act of 2015 capped bank lending rates to a maximum of 14.0%, which is 4% above the Central Bank Rate that has remained at 10% throughout 2017,

iv. High demand from high levels of speculation.

Unlike in a bubble where most of the demand is driven by speculators, in Kenyan the demand is driven by real demand, which is estimated to be at least 200,000 units p.a.

v. Incredible rise in house prices.

As is evidenced in our case studies, a housing bubble is characterized by most often than not, a triple digit growth in prices and as per the IMF standards, the decline in a bust must be at least 14% over a period of 16 quarters.

In Kenya however, the prices are growing, albeit softening, with 2016 recording an average appreciation rate of 7.4%, which slowed to 3.8% in 2017, as per the Cytonn Residential Report 2017.

From the above it is clear that the real estate sector in Kenya is not in a bubble based on the five indicators.

(Instead) The sector is experiencing the normal real estate cycles, and the rapid price increments being witnessed are a result of low supply and high demand.

Thus, it still presents attractive opportunities for investors.


In other words, you assert the property market is cooling off and proceed to accuse Cytonn of naivety while Cytonn Investments Analysts think otherwise and in fact take the opposite view.

Please tell me I am wrong.
sparkly
#460 Posted : Friday, December 29, 2017 4:56:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
aemathenge wrote:
Vj wrote:
since the property market is cooling off

Forgive me, if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you have made losses in your property market investments and therefore figure that anybody else not making such losses is, to quote your signature, "Young and Stupid" in believing they can make significant profits.

According to the Cytonn Investments' weekly report, on the other hand, the huge gains attributed to investments in the property market are not a bubble but something else altogether.

Extracts from the said report have this to say:

Source Link:

Quote:
The key indicators of a bubble are:

i. More people taking on more debt.

However, in Kenya today, the key constraint is access to credit as the government is crowding out the private sector given the 2016 interests rate cap law.

For instance, mortgage accounts were reported to have decreased by 1.5% by December 2016 to 24,085 from 24,458 the same period in 2015,

ii. Relaxed lending standards.

Despite the Kenyan government lowering interests rates, institutions have tightened their credit supply to the private sector, especially for long-term loans such as mortgages, as evidenced by the slowdown in private sector credit growth, at 2.0% in October 2017 compared to 4.6% in October 2016 and 19.5% in October 2015,

iii. Historically low interest rates.

From our case studies, interest rates declined to below 7%. In Kenya, The Bank Amendment Act of 2015 capped bank lending rates to a maximum of 14.0%, which is 4% above the Central Bank Rate that has remained at 10% throughout 2017,

iv. High demand from high levels of speculation.

Unlike in a bubble where most of the demand is driven by speculators, in Kenyan the demand is driven by real demand, which is estimated to be at least 200,000 units p.a.

v. Incredible rise in house prices.

As is evidenced in our case studies, a housing bubble is characterized by most often than not, a triple digit growth in prices and as per the IMF standards, the decline in a bust must be at least 14% over a period of 16 quarters.

In Kenya however, the prices are growing, albeit softening, with 2016 recording an average appreciation rate of 7.4%, which slowed to 3.8% in 2017, as per the Cytonn Residential Report 2017.

From the above it is clear that the real estate sector in Kenya is not in a bubble based on the five indicators.

(Instead) The sector is experiencing the normal real estate cycles, and the rapid price increments being witnessed are a result of low supply and high demand.

Thus, it still presents attractive opportunities for investors.


In other words, you assert the property market is cooling off and proceed to accuse Cytonn of naivety while Cytonn Investments Analysts think otherwise and in fact take the opposite view.

Please tell me I am wrong.


Many developers have un-taken units. There is demand but few can afford to buy.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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