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Cypriun Nyamwamu - Let us all vote NO!!!
McReggae
#1 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 11:39:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
A master piece:Applause Applause Applause

"All of us should Just vote 'NO'

At a time when ALL political parties are IN government except KADDU, when God has made it possible for this nation to be united in facilitating a process of making a just and democratic constitution, we seem to have missed the significance of NOW. This moment shall never, never repeat itself in history. in fact it ... See Morehas come to be because of extra-ordinary circumstances that led to the National Accord Framework. The NO side especially Bishops seem to miss this opportunity. And as much as your heart is engaged, your brain too must be engaged.

Ann Njogu has recently said that we are NOT making this constitution to take us heaven, but to save ourselves from hell. Like the hell we witnessed in the 2007/8 chaos. Ruto and Jirongo are saying that we are hurrying to make a bad constitution. And some people are believing this criminal utterances. 47 years later, more than 4 trillion shillings lost in war, clashes, Anglo leasing, Golden berg, thousand killed, jailed, harmed looking for a new democratic constitution is what Ruto calls "we are in a hurry". And he is left to utter those words. When Moi threw me and 71 others tino Kamiti for holding a meeting on Kenyatta day and calling the day Mashujaa day, William Ruto was a minister in the office of the President. He is now the great defender of rights and the statesman who wants Kenya to be saved from Human rights lawyers and great Philosphers like Willy Mutunga, Yash Ghai, Wangari Maathai, Oginga Odinga, and Timothy Njoya. Oh great saviour of Kenya, William Ruto! Great saviour Gerry Kibarabara, Great leader Cardinal Njue, Great defender of human rights Daniel Moi! There is even defender of our economy called Chris Foott who heads an association called Land owners association. As if my Father is not a Land Owner. These guys want me to entrust the future of our children to them, and not Hussein Khalid, Ole Sena or Njeri Kabeberi!

The beauty of democracy is that a whole population can mislead itself and years later regain its reason and do the right thing. Priests, Princes and Philosophers of every nation and society must play their roles. Currently I see that we have surrendered our role of philosophy to non-philosophers.To christian lawyers who want to shout every one out of the conversation.

On Wednesday May 26, 2010 night I was on Louis Otieno’s show on K24. A lawyer (who leads the Christian lawyers association – what could this association be for?) demanded that since Kenya is a secular state ( Kenya is not a secular state) and since there is separation of religion and state, Kadhi’s courts should be abolished since they elevate one religion and encourage the separate development of one religion (Islam) over others. This is the core of the contention in the Kadhi’s courts fireball that has become the squirrel as we chase the antelope.

But then one must NOT have his cake and eat it. So we should all vote ‘NO’ so that we make a constitution that establishes a secular state proper and that separates state from religion vizuri kabisa; so that nothing is done with my taxes that promotes a religion or that is governed by a non state institution;
i. All Christian schools should employ their own teachers and pay for them. Not by taxes paid for by Muslims and atheists, Hindus, Budhists and all others. Unfortunately my sister is a principal of one of the schools sponsored by the Catholic Church so I know how painful this is.
ii. Christian sponsored hospitals should pay for the nurses and personnel in those hospitals.
iii. The chaplain of the military (Bishop Rotich Alfred) and the chaplain of police and other disciplined forces (Bishop Anyolo) should be withdrawn immediately. Those chaplains in universities and colleges should be withdrawn too.
iv. Saturday and Sunday should become working days so that Christians like Muslims also go to church during lunch hour for an hour on Saturday or Sunday like Muslims do on Friday. No special treatment please.
v. Gay rights should be recognized and same sex unions should be solemnized at the AG’s all over Kenya from tomorrow. Yes, that is what happens in secular states like South African that the Christian Lawyers (sic) quote so enthusiastically. In fact this is the way to go now that we are at it.
vi. Prayers at the start of parliamentary and other public functions should be stopped.
vii. The oaths of office for all public officials should be amended so that allegiance is to the constitution. No mention of God.
viii. In courts of law- No Bible, No Quran.
ix. Let’s amend our Anthem because some of us are atheist and the God we refer to in the verse is offensive to some of our brothers and sisters.
x. This Biashara of stopping women from going for elective abortion should stop. Women should not procure abortions only because their health and life is in danger but because such a pregnancy is socially untenable in their development.
If my Bishops who have run an institution that has existed since Peter, some 2,000 years ago and who have world renown institutions to inform their philosophical basis of priesthood are now relying on the Mwaura Wahiga’s of this city to advise them on the meaning of ‘religious courts’ and ‘discrimination’, then they should be prepared to take responsibility of this factionalism and tearing of the fabric of my nation. So that, Bishop Sulumeti, a holder of Phd. In Law can not allow catholic Bishops to publish the kind of statements and letters that we have seen from and yet escape the judgment that history hands men and women who have been given distinguished status amongst the community.

If we are in the mood to mess up the nation then us do it properly. Let us miss the point of why we wanted a new constitution and now discuss the issue of morality and religiosity in the constructing of the state but do it properly. I am ready for this conversation.

We can not surrender the stewardship of our nation to crazy commercial activists who clothe themselves in religious fervency. The princes of the republic know that Kenya needs a new settlement. The Philosophers have told them and us that Kadhi’s courts hurt no interests of our nation. The Priests have sort advice from NOT our philosophers but from sophists and Christian lawyers ( like the ones you see issuing statements at Ufungamano) - from some association formed for taking the nation in the wrong direction. The priests are now relying on people who shout out the philosophers. Bishops are listening to Christian lawyers and medics armed with propaganda in the name of some Abuja declarations and some power-point-scaremongering about how Kenya is about to be consumed under Sharia law.

Some judges seized by this new found religious movements then come to us with crazy rulings where they assert that Kadhi’s courts are ‘religious courts’, cause parts of the constitution to become inconsistent with other parts and parts become unconstitutional; and imagining they then agree with an argument that Muslims were going to remain enclaved in some 10 miles strip down in the coast forever without telling our nation that the current constitution was indeed enacted as Act 5 of 1969 after many amendments. As if they do not know about fair administration and access to justice which is the basis of having courts.

Now that it has come to this, Let us vote NO and then make a constitution to establish the Secular state and NOT our religiously neutral state. Alleluyha!"Applause Applause
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
McReggae
#2 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 11:57:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Read the piece brari uji!!!.....funda wewe!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
suwan
#3 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 12:07:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/18/2009
Posts: 176
u shld encourage all to read the draft be4 they make hasty decision of eitha yes or no...it is wise
keraka
#4 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 12:10:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 637
Location: Nairobi
So this Impunity fellow is only on the no side coz of Raira.huh looserSad Sad Sad d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
sky5
#5 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 12:28:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
@McReggae.
The beef you have with Christian Bishops, lawyers and medics is quite discernible. However, they are too are entitled to their NO vote just as you are entitled to your YES-NO vote.

The new constitution will neither take us to heaven nor save us from hell. The constitution is the supreme law on paper. But whether that law finds abode in the heart of the nation is a different thing all together. If people don’t change, no single law can change them.

Please tell us …how will a new constitution will save us from chaos similar to those witnessed in 2007/8 if similar conditions exist and we have a hotly contested and disputed general election 2012?

We shall vote NO as you have advised. But a NO win is not likely to turn Kenya to a secular and humanistic state as you have advocated. In fact the opposite is much more plausible.
McReggae
#6 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 12:48:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
sky5,
The reason you want the Kadhi's courts out is coz suppossedly we are a 'secular state'.......at the same time you want abortion illigalized..... if we are a secular state the abortion or when life begins cannot be enshrined in the constitution......simple logic: talk of having your cake and eating it!!!!Shame on you

......the last time I checked only Kalonzo belonged to the YES-NO group, I did not know I had joined unless one does not understand what sarcasm means!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Mathia Lydia
#7 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:01:43 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/28/2010
Posts: 1
Location: Nairobi
Sarcasm; cutting language
Remarks that mean the opposite of what they seem to say and are intended to mock or deride.
Synonyms; irony, mockery, derision, scorn, disdain, cynicism
Some people must have missed it.
nanfor1
#8 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:04:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
McReggae

You are wasting your time with these people. To them, life begins not at conception but where muslims die.

As you may have noticed, I have refused to get a headache replying to their posts.

If they want a secular state as they want us to believe, then let them now get ready for one. As an imbiber of hot liquids, I have absolutely no problem with a secular state. I am already tired with that kesha church near my place and that noisy guy every day at 5:30 am. They want, secular, let us vote no and give them secular.

Great piece and Nyamwamu has just cleared my head.

I am voting No too.
Hata wakizima taa
sky5
#9 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:10:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
Kenya is a secular state because there is no religion declared as state religion in the constitution. Even so, this does not mean that we enact laws from the animal kingdom.
B.Timer
#10 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:13:45 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
sky5 wrote:
@McReggae.
The beef you have with Christian Bishops, lawyers and medics is quite discernible. However, they are too are entitled to their NO vote just as you are entitled to your YES-NO vote.

The new constitution will neither take us to heaven nor save us from hell. The constitution is the supreme law on paper. But whether that law finds abode in the heart of the nation is a different thing all together. If people don’t change, no single law can change them.

Please tell us …how will a new constitution will save us from chaos similar to those witnessed in 2007/8 if similar conditions exist and we have a hotly contested and disputed general election 2012?

We shall vote NO as you have advised. But a NO win is not likely to turn Kenya to a secular and humanistic state as you have advocated. In fact the opposite is much more plausible.




spot on.

Though I appreaciate that we need a new constitution, I am appalled by the way fellows have been brainwashed that it is the panacea to all our ills!

The main arguing point on Kadhis court matter is the need to treat all religions equaly as well as seperation of state and religion.
Twisting these arguments so as to find a window upon which to insult Christians, Hindus and other Kenyans who have expressed such concerns is to stoop too low.

Dunia ni msongamano..
B.Timer
#11 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:15:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

One doesnt have to be religious to abhor abortion.
Dunia ni msongamano..
nanfor1
#12 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:20:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
B.Timer wrote:

One doesnt have to be religious to abhor abortion.


One needs to stop lying to be religious though.
Hata wakizima taa
McReggae
#13 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:22:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
I wonder who really is twisting words here...

I am scared of christian supermacists!!!!

......does it mean that if you abhor abortion then all should, a secular constitution is silent on almost all moral issues!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
McReggae
#14 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:27:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Secular:
1.of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2.not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.
3.(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
nanfor1
#15 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:30:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
now I know why the US went secular. dealing with these fellows can be very tiring. People in Kenya were thrown in detention because of abortion and Kadhis courts. I dare one of them to tell me when he/she was ever clobbered by a cop for saying Moi was wrong.

Now they come here and want us all to believe in their warped world.

NOOOO. Apanaaaa!

If you want to be No, be No. Lakini stop taking us like kids here trying to be the Godly ones or sent by God to liberate us with your nonsense.

Be No and Stay No, don't try and 'save" me.

logic is not one of their major strong points and I would rather a fool than an illogical fool.
Hata wakizima taa
Njung'e
#16 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:32:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Nanfor,
Right behind you after Mcreggae and Cyprian.....You see,the road to Canaan is lined up with kshs 500 notes (Jirongos),mahindi and all other good things including mounds of gold.....YEeep.Count on me.It's a NO!!...Idiots!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Apple Bees
#17 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 1:50:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/5/2008
Posts: 390
well written piece, Cyprian. Applause

That would make all the latter day reformists aka YK92 cringe in shame!
makmende
#18 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 2:20:01 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/14/2010
Posts: 26
Location: kenya
all i have to say to everyone is the good Lord crafted you uniquely and gave u a mind 2 weigh ur options. Al that is required is read the draft then u go with the syd that best expresses ur take on the it and your expectations for this country.

Though good debate MC. problem is people suffer ADD (attention Defiency Disorder) and cant read long posts coz if they had read it they would have gotten the sarcasm.

smile Applause
Roho Juu
cruso
#19 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 3:25:58 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 33
Location: nairobi
This piece reminds me of the olden days when we used to ''katia ma manzi'' and the golden rule was, ''If she says 'NO', thats a YES and vice versa.

Kenyans should just accept that we are a Multireligious state.

Kudos Applause

RELIGION = MAN LOOKING FOR GOD AND SALVATION = GOD LOOKING FOR MAN.
McReggae
#20 Posted : Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:09:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Somehow Cypriun's piece silenced many, no naysayer was able to tackle it verse by verse!!!!

Kudos Cypriun!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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