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BREAKING NEWS......Kadhis Courts are illegal
ibsi
#141 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:05:12 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 38
Location: Nairobi
Sultans were no different from British or other colonialists from the West. Let us manage our affairs as Kenyans but not to go back to historical injustices committed by Arabs and their counterparts from Europe.

Kenya is one and let those who now live in Kenya speak in one voice not going back and forth about religion, tribe or race. If you are a person from Coast dont say that Islam is supperior in that region. Remember that all major religions in Kenya and the World over are all imported ones. We better recognise our indegenous courts than sneek in foreign religions to our constitution. The Kenyan Coast or mainland was devoid of religions sectarianism before the coming of Islam, Christianity and other religions. By the way Sultans just as colonial Britons were Exploiters and Suppressers.
Trust in God and endure patiently.
masukuma
#142 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:28:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Well put @ibsi...well said. Lets live in a nation whose governance is devoid of religion.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
theman192000
#143 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:32:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/11/2008
Posts: 401
ibsi wrote:
This all attests why this constitution making is flawed. Islam is supposedly a peaceful religion but statistics of the acts of atrocities comitted by its members are tatally the opposite. This doesnt mean that Xtians have never waged serious crimes but the difference is that muslims do it in the name of God whereas Xtians or other non-xtians do it on their own.


@ ibsi , you might want to rethink that statement. See below.

The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Latin Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes
masukuma
#144 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:52:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@theman192000,
in this century
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
theman192000
#145 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:04:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/11/2008
Posts: 401
@ masukuma, I'm willing to bet if I post something showing atrocities committed by Christians in God's name in this century, you will say, this year, then, this month, then probably, in Kenya, in Nairobi, by someone I know, etc.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#146 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:09:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@All

I think the even bigger impact of this ruling is that its socially unenforceable. Were it to be implemented, it would lead to chaos, then a political settlement at best, leading us back to where we are now.

Lets vote in the new constitution and get rid of this 3 jokers.

I actually sleep soundly in the knowledge that those 3 jokers have 3 votes and no jobs after they cast them.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
masukuma
#147 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:23:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Amos wako running to the Court of appeal has given this ruling teeth that cannot be just declared as academic. @Obi, don't wet your pants and you are in your own country. What Chaos?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sky5
#148 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:30:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
The High Court ruling may not have an immediate impact on the pending referendum because the case refers mostly to the pre-2005 referendum period.

So let's wait for the referendum and vote. Since attempts for win-win vote failed long time, there will be a win-lose scenario.
nanfor1
#149 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:32:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
even kivuitu now walks the streets of Nairobi alone. Hata hawa wataenda the same route. They can now boast to their kids...when I was a judge I changed the constitution.
Hata wakizima taa
Obi 1 Kanobi
#150 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:36:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
masukuma wrote:
Amos wako running to the Court of appeal has given this ruling teeth that cannot be just declared as academic. @Obi, don't wet your pants and you are in your own country. What Chaos?


@Masukuma, I try to avoid conversing with you because you are very obtuse and never bother to shift your position so you can take a better (alternative) look at anything.

The AG has to challenge this ruling because we must have responsible systems to prepare for its impact if the draft constitution fails to go through.

The muslim faithful will certainly view this ruling as a direct challange on their way of life and will never accept it, but I know you think otherwise.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Much Know
#151 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:38:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Little surprise these warabu demand degrees for Kenyans to transit the middle east! Those silly blacks! How come they have beef with the U.S and dont pull such stunts? Oh i forgot, we are still slaves to them, but we are good, they can lodge their courts here and we slaves will shout "ni sawa tu!" . Sing along "Welcome to the land of Kenya, people are happy and they're living in peace"They have withdrawn all visas and we just sit here supporting their slavery courts. This our slave masters with their veeeery big long noses can go get the real deal huko kwao where they can peacefully stone their daughters. In Kenya, i say a big NO! to their nonesense period.
A New Kenya
Obi 1 Kanobi
#152 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:55:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
This ruling is very disturbing in the way it was casually arrived at without due thought on its basis in law, impact on the nation and the spirit of the constitution and onekenya.

Religion has always and will always be a red button in man's history and future. I am not surprised that the biggest roadblock to Kenyans realising a new constitution is now religion, not tribalism or politicians or any of our usual suspects, reason being their is normally no compromise on religious beliefs.

Kenyans must not open this box, nobody wins. I am sure Kenyans will rise above emotions and make personal compromises the way Bishop Gitari and Njoya have done.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
sky5
#153 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:05:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
If we as Kenyans, have been demanding for the independence of the judiciary, how come we are now susceptible to question the ruling of a case in the High Court?

The judges were right in their ruling and anyone of contrary opinion can go to the Court of Appeal. And what if the Court of Appeal upholds the ruling of the High Court?
masukuma
#154 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:09:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@Obi, why can't Supkem rise and be the greater people. there are many nations in the world that don't have Kadhi's courts. they can say - for the good of the Nation. we accept that these courts are being contentious and we can live under article 45(4) with everyone else.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#155 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:25:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
masukuma wrote:
@Obi, why can't Supkem rise and be the greater people. there are many nations in the world that don't have Kadhi's courts. they can say - for the good of the Nation. we accept that these courts are being contentious and we can live under article 45(4) with everyone else.


Because they are in the current constitution (or it has been assumed they were) the burden must surely be on us non muslims to explain why we want them out. I thought thats the way things work.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
masukuma
#156 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:32:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@Obi
Ben Kenobi wrote:

Because they are in the current constitution (or it has been assumed they were) the burden must surely be on us non muslims to explain why we want them out. I thought thats the way things work.

...but we have and the High court agreed.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AmHere
#157 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:43:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 93
You beat me to it because I was thinking the same thing. Now that would be a lot more serious.

sky5 wrote:
And what if the Court of Appeal upholds the ruling of the High Court?

Obi 1 Kanobi
#158 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:48:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
AmHere wrote:
You beat me to it because I was thinking. Now that would be a lot more serious.

sky5 wrote:
And what if the Court of Appeal upholds the ruling of the High Court?



On Aug 4, they still go home with their rulings and apellate decisions.

It would be interesting to find out how many more important cases these 3 jokers put aside to dig up this case fastrack the dodgy decision to try and save their a**s.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
AmHere
#159 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:53:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 93
You are right. My concern is if the AG appeals the case and then the Court of Appeal (currently the highest court in the land) upholds the same decision can that be used as a precedent in the new constitutional dispensation? When a country transitions from an old to a new constitution, do all court precedents become null and void?

Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
AmHere wrote:
You beat me to it because I was thinking. Now that would be a lot more serious.

sky5 wrote:
And what if the Court of Appeal upholds the ruling of the High Court?



On Aug 4, they still go home with their rulings and apellate decisions.

It would be nice to find out how many more important cases thess 3 jokers put aside to fastrack this dodgy decision.

Obi 1 Kanobi
#160 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:06:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
AmHere wrote:
You are right. My concern is if the AG appeals the case and then the Court of Appeal (currently the highest court in the land) upholds the same decision can that be used as a precedent in the new constitutional dispensation? When a country transitions from an old to a new constitution, do all court precedents become null and void?

Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
AmHere wrote:
You beat me to it because I was thinking. Now that would be a lot more serious.

sky5 wrote:
And what if the Court of Appeal upholds the ruling of the High Court?



On Aug 4, they still go home with their rulings and apellate decisions.

It would be nice to find out how many more important cases thess 3 jokers put aside to fastrack this dodgy decision.



@amhere,
I think the new constitution comes with no baggage. Its a clean start for all laws applicable in Kenya.
Besides, even in the current ruling the judges I believe said that there is nothing the courts can do as the courts cannot change the constitution.

How do you decide which part of the constitution is more important than the other, rights of worship or Kadhi courts.

@all
I would also like to understand how the courts ruled on the spending on Kadhi courts as being illegal, to my knowledge, public expenditure is proposed by government through budget and approved by parliament annually, and I think judiciary and parliament also prepare their annual budgets with some level of autonomy from executive, the kadhi's court gets funding by virtue of their being considered part of the judiciary.
The inclusion in the ruling that they should not be publicly funded was therefore unnecessary and meant to stir the emotions of Kenyans to reject the draft constitution.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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