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BREAKING NEWS......Kadhis Courts are illegal
AmHere
#121 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:52:55 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 93
Declaring a constitutional provision unconstitutional is quite rare. What has precedence internationally is declaring a constitutional amendment unconstitutional. Courts in India and Ireland have walked a similar though not identical path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Structure

The case by the Indian Court was that certain parts of the constitution were beyond amendment by parliament. Is that probably similar to the position held by the bill of rights in our proposed constitution? Our case might be different because we are not talking about a constitutional amendment per se.

The Kenyan judges decision is indeed a reason for healthy debate. My question would be can a Constitutional Court sitting after the enactment of the new constitution declare any section of the same constitution that appears to contradict the bill of rights or fundamental freedoms (basic structure?) null and void?

The following is an interesting read if you have the time

https://webspace.utexas....utional_constit%232C.pdf
theman192000
#122 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:02:58 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/11/2008
Posts: 401
@ nanfor1, some more food for thought.

According to lawyer Paul Mwangi, who was interviewed on Citizen TV last night, the basis of the court case whose ruling we are debating, was based on the draft of the 2005 proposed constitution and the defendant was the ECK. The draft was defeated in the 2005 referendum and since then ECK has ceased to exist. Therefore the case was overtaken by events.

Secondly, the 10 mile coastal strip was not part of Kenya before independence but was ruled as a protectorate since 1895 by the British on behalf of the Sultan of Zanzibar. The agreement at independence which was executed and signed by the Sultan of Zanzibar and the PM at the time Jomo Snr. was that the strip will be part of Kenya as long as these Kadhi courts are allowed to continue.

Now if they have been declared illegal, does the strip revert back to Zanzibar? Note that on this particular issue, it matters not where the Kadhi courts are captured, but they need to be somewhere.
masukuma
#123 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:21:53 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
@there was no Kenya before 1963. These treaties we were having with Arabs , Egyptians and others over our country should be re-looked at. We are not free men in our own land. we cannot make our own laws, we cannot use our own water.
We are rubber-stamping the notion that we are lesser beings by having foreign interests dictate the agenda of our land.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
wanjirus
#124 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:23:19 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 37
As a sober ordinary Kenyan,I know for a fact:
1. A judicial precedent cannot supersede the constitution,
2. When the prosposed constitution comes in to force the judges will be vetted afresh, the AG and CJ will be in office just for the transition period which may be one year or less, and we all know public offices are too sweet to leave at will.
3.There is a very vigorous force to try and derail the process and I am the one to benefit the reason every beneficiary of the current constitution is against this.
4. I have read the constitution and made up my mind any thing else is like hurling insults at me in Gujarat which I can't understand,further more I have been reading and making decision on my own for the past more than 20 yrs and no major mistakes.

FundamentAli
#125 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:35:48 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
Am looking at the times the post were posted. Wazua must be operating +4 GMT. That besides

The Judges erred in my opinion. What that judgement means is that we have a completely secular state. Remove the word God from the National anthem, prayers during national days, opening of parliament etc. It also means that it is not legal to go and state before a magistrate about your faith. Bible and Qurans should not be used to take oaths. I do not know which civil process is free in the Kenyan courts. If you file for divorce you pay filing charges as a christian and they ask you your religion. The hearing of a divorce between two christians takes place in a court supported by the tax payers. If you die and you have no will, the State adminsters your estate. Is this not paid for by taxpayers. Why not give others the opportunity to have similar cases but profess a different faith or their have agreed to different kinds of contract.

The ruling also nullifies the marriage act as I understand it. If Muslim marriages are recognised by law, what mechanism do you have for resolving disputes arising therefrom?

That ruling can also be used against christians. Do not celebrate. It is what is happening in the western world. If I were one of the petitioners, I would mourn. It is the case of one monkey laughing about the back of another monkey
Sigiriri
#126 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:49:55 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
I know one thing now - strengthened by this ruling:
1. I have never opposed muslims having their kadhi's establishments, but I am opposed to that being a protected clause in the universal law of the land where we are all mixed religion.

Let's pause as advised and ammend this proposed draft to give strength to the Kadhi courts on the basis of parliamentary Act. This way, we will all be happy and surely the Christians wont oppose the Act that will be passed in parliament.

The constitution is for all and must not segregate unless to cater for special interest groups - not religions!!

By August, the tide will have turned. @surealligator, I think you may have a point - these politicians are devious beyond mention!
theman192000
#127 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:09:28 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/11/2008
Posts: 401
masukuma wrote:
@there was no Kenya before 1963.


Kindly advise what the British colony was called then...
masukuma
#128 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:23:11 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
@theman192000, the republic did not exist. we were not self ruling.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
KulaRaha
#129 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:25:54 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
British East Africa and included Uganda
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
aemathenge
#130 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:26:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
I take it that "We" are now "Self Ruling".
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