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BREAKING NEWS......Kadhis Courts are illegal
masukuma
#61 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 3:56:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@theman192000, A constitution cannot in one breath lock every other culture, religion and systems of laws in kenya into article 45(4) and force them to act within the constitution and then with the same breath give ONE religion/culture a court to rule over the same matters and using their law and not in accordance to the constitution coz their laws are grafted to the constitution similar to international treaties.
this is an INJUSTICE.
Maasais have a way of life too, Turkanas also. Hindus are a religion and we can all fit into article 45(4).- FYI : this is how TZ handles Muslims.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
nanfor1
#62 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 3:56:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
@masukuma I am deeply disappointed to see that our judges still need to go to school. While I have my own views on this matter, i find it very dangerous to use lame law to try and justify a ruling.

I have tried to be even a bit optimistic but it is obvious to me that the same machinations that ran Kenya for over a quarter century have been applied here. So sad indeed.

2012 here we come. Same ol' same ol". Where will you be?
Hata wakizima taa
masukuma
#63 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 3:58:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@Fundaah, it was a straight call - we had been saying it.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Fundaah
#64 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:00:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
At what point do the people of Kenya have soverign power...Ie when is it possible for Kenyans to ignore court rulings ?.... can the president do something at this point? ...we need a new constitution bwana....
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
masukuma
#65 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:03:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@nanfor1, have hope...have faith. We can have this draft if we desire and we desire. I think politicians have lied to us that there are only two choices...only two option. YES or NO... so the nation is in a tunnel vision situation.
I dare to have hope that we can stop it and amend it and move on. We should have a draft by the end of the year - a Draft we are all happy with.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
nanfor1
#66 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:05:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
@ Fundaah, this doesn't change the proposed constitution in anyway.

What it does is make me wonder exactly how dumb our judges are. this ruling is amazing in the fact that they can say something in a constitution is illegal. Based on what? All legal and illegal laws stem from the constitution. Just amazing.

these are the same judges who have been presiding in Kenya over the past half century. No wonder we have so many problems.

Anyway, like i have said. Kenya will never get a constitution in my lifetime. Tutakaa vivi hivi.
Hata wakizima taa
masukuma
#67 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:11:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Kenyans need to start now being able to obey the law..unpleasant or otherwise. If a simple judge ruling cannot be obeyed. it shows the constitution or any other will not be obeyed when it displeases you. We need to come to a place where we respect our laws and live by them or change them to suit our needs.
If Kenyans disregard this ruling - they will be no different from the Kenyans that disregarded the laws in 2007-2008 and went to war. We will have shown ourselves to be wild beasts in human clothing that can only obey laws as long as they suit them.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Jump-steady
#68 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:13:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
What have these learned fellows been doing with that case since 2004? Have they acted in utmost good faith considering the timing of the ruling? Something is not right Sad
Brewer
#69 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:36:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
The judges have not stated anything new; the church has been on this issue all through even before Bomas and yet the Committee of 'experts' decided to ignore them. Some now are throwing mud at the judges as if they originated the case- remember someone went to court with a grievance- that it entrenches inequality- and the judges agreed. The grievance is shared by millions of others who now are in the NO camp. You want to throw mud at all of them too?

@Masukuma hongera and keep the flame alive.
kadonye
#70 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:36:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Interesting turn of events.Legally it will not stop the new constitution from passing as constitutions r the supreme law.Judicial precedent can only be used by the plaintiff to argue their case out.Judges r not bound to follow it.However, politically this is probably the best chance of the NO team adding steam to their campaign engine.This is now a very tricky issue...
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
aemathenge
#71 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:37:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
And the circus goes on.

I am begining to enjoy the show, now that 24 season 8 is over.
Mpenzi
#72 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56:35 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
The judges did not just wake up and create a case. Somebody felt aggrieved and filed the suit stating that he or she was being discriminated against and the judges agreed. As for timing, the judges heard the case in the normal course of their work. We all know that cases in the High Court now take 5 to 10 years to be decided due to the huge backlog there. The last people that should be besmirched here are the judges.
kadonye
#73 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:58:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
I dont get why people are mourning.The high court has not stopped the constitution making process
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
masukuma
#74 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:00:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
lets face it, this draft has had many issues....lets take stock.
1) multiple drafts in circulation
2) typos and hanging clauses
3) this ruling.
Why are we seeming like we are forcing things? trying to force a square block in a round slot?
take a breather....breath in..out...in again...go back to the table. the PSC agreed in 2 weeks. i am sure we can agree in the same period. No need to hurry things.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
nanfor1
#75 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:03:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
@masukuma

i think you are losing the plot here.

You have yet to answer one question. Under what law did these 3 fellows change the constitution?

I hate the current constitution but I am having difficulty figuring out which court on this earth has the power to declare a clause in the constitution illegal.

this is why this constitution needs to go. I am happy to see on most Kenyan forums this ruling has made people madder than as depressed as i was.

These are the same judges who declared no goldenburg, no anglo leasing and ....I wonder what the game is now
Hata wakizima taa
cnn
#76 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:11:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 1,619
Ata waikizima taa....
Much Know
#77 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:13:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
I won't vote to pay for kadhi courts. Good move high court! Its funny how many can't see a simple contradiction.
A New Kenya
nanfor1
#78 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:28:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
Much Know wrote:
I won't vote to pay for kadhi courts. Good move high court! Its funny how many can't see a simple contradiction.


I have never used Thika road so I won't pay those taxes. I have no babies in Kenya so I won't pay for the children's court. that argument doesn't deserve a reply.

I am still waiting for someone who can explain to me in clear english how a court can say something in the constitution I really hate is illegal. The constitution is the supreme law of the land, how can a judge decide it is illegal. Under what authority. His being in the court is itself due to the constitution that he is saying is illegal.

Maajabu ya Musa haya. Some of these things can only happen in kenya.




Hata wakizima taa
masukuma
#79 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:28:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@muchknow...well put. @nanfor, if i am not mistaken the current constitution does not expressly say that it cannot be questioned in any court.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#80 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 5:33:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@nanfor1, but Thika road does not expressly say i should not use it (its a public road) or say it shall be used by only a certain group of people.
its clear as day that this law is a discriminatory law for all religions and cultures that have their ways of life. in that everyone else has to live in 45(4) except MUSLIMS who can live there and else where.
Its discriminatory.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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