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Post election reflection
Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/8/2017 Posts: 74
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Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,782 Location: nairobi
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mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Hehe. With a stage name like mobutu how democratic are you COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/8/2017 Posts: 74
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obiero wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Hehe. With a stage name like mobutu how democratic are you @obiero,look at wat democracy is doing to our country.may be we need a dictator kaa mobutu.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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mobutu123 wrote:obiero wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Hehe. With a stage name like mobutu how democratic are you @obiero,l ook at wat democracy is doing to our country.may be we need a dictator kaa mobutu. what id it doing? I am happy
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/8/2017 Posts: 74
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Amores wrote:mobutu123 wrote:obiero wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Hehe. With a stage name like mobutu how democratic are you @obiero,l ook at wat democracy is doing to our country.may be we need a dictator kaa mobutu. what id it doing? Democracy has been hailed as the best system of governance enabling a nation have prosperity,empowerment and cohesion. our kenyan example makes this statement a fallacy. we are divided along tribal lines,hate each other,are intolerant,preach peace while holding a machete in one hand and we proudly call ourselves democrats. seriously?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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mobutu123 wrote:Amores wrote:mobutu123 wrote:obiero wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Hehe. With a stage name like mobutu how democratic are you @obiero,l ook at wat democracy is doing to our country.may be we need a dictator kaa mobutu. what id it doing? Democracy has been hailed as the best system of governance enabling a nation have prosperity,empowerment and cohesion. our kenyan example makes this statement a fallacy. we are divided along tribal lines,hate each other,are intolerant,preach peace while holding a machete in one hand and we proudly call ourselves democrats. seriously? You really think we hate each other?  Tembeeni muone!! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,716
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masukuma wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Amores wrote:mobutu123 wrote:obiero wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Hehe. With a stage name like mobutu how democratic are you @obiero,l ook at wat democracy is doing to our country.may be we need a dictator kaa mobutu. what id it doing? Democracy has been hailed as the best system of governance enabling a nation have prosperity,empowerment and cohesion. our kenyan example makes this statement a fallacy. we are divided along tribal lines,hate each other,are intolerant,preach peace while holding a machete in one hand and we proudly call ourselves democrats. seriously? You really think we hate each other?  Tembeeni muone!! I agree with masukuma you need a different experience to compare with before you are too quick to hate yourself. All societies have clusters within them and in Kenya our clusters happen to be tribe. Other societies have different ones, in India it is castes, in America color, in some places like the UK it may be social class etc. Our cluster system even when we do not feel like it is rather egalitarian. A Luo even the one who does not like a Kikuyu does not feel inferior to the Kikuyu. In fact every ethnic group in Kenya feels superior to all others. If we have hatred for each other it is a hatred of equals. The other advantage of having tribal clusters is that it masks other more oppressive clustering. A Kikuyu in Kibera has a kinship relation to a Kikuyu in Karen. Even when a few people snob others after acquiring some wealth the tribal bounds would not allow it to go to a point of widespread dehumanizing of one segment of the population. Contrast this with the Caste system in India or in Arabs countries such as Saudi Arabia. In those societies the clustering is such that it eliminates all humanity from certain groups of people. In America racism is much deeper than our tribalism. Sometimes I feel this tribal sensitivity is a middle class thing. Go to a mjengo where there are many people working and everyone is known by their tribe yet they are not sensitive about it; Mkisii wa mawe, Mjaluo wa kukoroga, Mkamba wa mbao, Mkikuyu wa mfereji etc.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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Well they say we were born in a tribe but the white man forced a country in us. What if we have a semiautonomous lose independent states reflecting our ethnicity. Similar to U.K territories of Scotland and England ? Homogeneous nations do very well work to prosper
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,716
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Tokyo wrote:Well they say we were born in a tribe but the white man forced a country in us. What if we have a semiautonomous lose independent states reflecting our ethnicity. Similar to U.K territories of Scotland and England ? Homogeneous nations do very well It is too late. We cannot go back and even if we could it would probably not be a good idea. Kenyans tribes are too small in size and territory to form viable states and even assuming they were it would take 100 years of fighting to resolve the boundary issues that would arise. We have no choice but to forge ahead as we are from where we are. I for one think we are doing pretty well. We were under British occupation for 75 years, we have only been independent for 54 years. We are on the right path. Raila has probably contributed more to Kenya heading in the right direction that Uhuru ever will. He has also been useful to the country more by losing than by winning because he is able to bring a focus to the rules of the game more sharply by challenging them. The difference between the ECK of 2007 and IEBC of 2017 is as clear as night and day. In trying to get to conduct an election that meets Raila's standard of credible we have all benefited. By the time this case has been decided whether UK retains the seat or not something will have been pointed out that will make the next election better. The current transparent way of appointing the chief justice is because of Raila's disagreement with Kibaki.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:The current transparent way of appointing the chief justice is because of Raila's disagreement with Kibaki. No it isn't It goes back to Moi era control of the judiciary and other offices. There was need to create independent institutions
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Maybe we try rotational presidency among different regions?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,716
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:The current transparent way of appointing the chief justice is because of Raila's disagreement with Kibaki. No it isn't It goes back to Moi era control of the judiciary and other offices. There was need to create independent institutions This was published in the Standard on January 28, 2011. Kibaki appoints Justice Visram as CJ, Prof Muigai AG Published Fri, January 28th 2011 By STANDARD TEAM President Kibaki has nominated Justice Alnashir Visram to the position of Chief Justice amid a standoff with Prime Minister Raila Odinga. President Kibaki also nominated Prof Githu Muigai as Attorney General and Kioko Kilukumi Director of Public Prosecutions. Kibaki appoints Prof. Githu Muigai as the new Attorney General. A dispatch from PPS stated that the President after consultation with the Prime Minister Raila Odinga also appointed William Kirwa as Controller of Budget. President Kibaki made the key appointments in the judiciary, barely one hour after Kenya set in motion the process of deferral of cases filed against six of its citizens at the International Criminal Court (ICC). The timing of the appointment of the new Chief Justice (CJ), the Attorney General (AG) and Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is calculated to convince the international community about Kenya’s commitment to judicial reforms. It has been argued that the ICC should handle the cases because the country lacks a credible judicial capable of dispensing justice. Just before the release of the names from State House by Presidential Press Service, Lands Minister James Orengo, a close ally of the Prime Minister called journalists to his office to protest that Raila was not consulted in the nominations. Orengo urged the President to embrace consultations and claimed that the Head of Civil Service Francis Muthaura had confirmed the nomination of Justice Visram as the Chief Justice, with Githu Muigai as the Attorney General and Kioko Kilukumi as the Director of Public Prosecution. "I have been forced to call this press conference at this hour in regard to the impending appointments to various institutions of the Government," said Orengo at 8.30 PM on Friday. He said ODM was equally taken by surprise with the appointment of Major General Michael Gichangi as the Director General of the National Security Intelligence Service last week. He said: "The Head of Public Service Francis Muthaura called PM’s Permanent Secretary Dr Mohammed Isahakia this afternoon to tell him about the appointments saying they were supposed to be announced anytime, but we are not going to accept them because there was no consultations and the PM who is in Ethiopia attending AU Summit meeting is not aware."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Kusadikika wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:The current transparent way of appointing the chief justice is because of Raila's disagreement with Kibaki. No it isn't It goes back to Moi era control of the judiciary and other offices. There was need to create independent institutions This was published in the Standard on January 28, 2011. Kibaki appoints Justice Visram as CJ, Prof Muigai AG Published Fri, January 28th 2011 By STANDARD TEAM President Kibaki has nominated Justice Alnashir Visram to the position of Chief Justice amid a standoff with Prime Minister Raila Odinga. President Kibaki also nominated Prof Githu Muigai as Attorney General and Kioko Kilukumi Director of Public Prosecutions. Kibaki appoints Prof. Githu Muigai as the new Attorney General. A dispatch from PPS stated that the President after consultation with the Prime Minister Raila Odinga also appointed William Kirwa as Controller of Budget. President Kibaki made the key appointments in the judiciary, barely one hour after Kenya set in motion the process of deferral of cases filed against six of its citizens at the International Criminal Court (ICC). The timing of the appointment of the new Chief Justice (CJ), the Attorney General (AG) and Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is calculated to convince the international community about Kenya’s commitment to judicial reforms. It has been argued that the ICC should handle the cases because the country lacks a credible judicial capable of dispensing justice. Just before the release of the names from State House by Presidential Press Service, Lands Minister James Orengo, a close ally of the Prime Minister called journalists to his office to protest that Raila was not consulted in the nominations. Orengo urged the President to embrace consultations and claimed that the Head of Civil Service Francis Muthaura had confirmed the nomination of Justice Visram as the Chief Justice, with Githu Muigai as the Attorney General and Kioko Kilukumi as the Director of Public Prosecution. "I have been forced to call this press conference at this hour in regard to the impending appointments to various institutions of the Government," said Orengo at 8.30 PM on Friday. He said ODM was equally taken by surprise with the appointment of Major General Michael Gichangi as the Director General of the National Security Intelligence Service last week. He said: "The Head of Public Service Francis Muthaura called PM’s Permanent Secretary Dr Mohammed Isahakia this afternoon to tell him about the appointments saying they were supposed to be announced anytime, but we are not going to accept them because there was no consultations and the PM who is in Ethiopia attending AU Summit meeting is not aware." Yes. All above happened and there was much noise BUT the control of the executive over independent offices and organs was the push behind having more elaborate ways of hiring and firing the holders of those offices Clamour started in the 90s
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Yeah. People must stop giving undue credit to Riek. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Let me start by defining 'democracy': It is a method for organizing a society and distributing resources that ascribes to all inclusiveness inspite of antagonism and conflict.
So if a body politic experiences the above then it can say that democracy works for it. No matter what and how the conflicts within it appear and are resolved.
That would mean that the problem with democracy is that it takes for granted that people have an easy access to the knowledge and facilities of a good life.
Indeed, this belief/assumption is reinforced when we think of 'neo-liberal' ideas that infer that the market is an indicator of the highest good for a body politic.
But is our experience of human nature proof of such assumptions? From massive inequalities to erosion of culture even among the elite - for example, elites have tended to support unsustainable economies and ecologies- we have instances in which humanity has consistently shown that there's evil and that it's rampant.
What solution does democracy offer to the problem of evil? None. Instead, democracy sustains evil, and that's why it's easy for us to despair of it. In our international system, democracy is inapplicable among the nation states.
Democracy simply, doesn't work for freedom and it's form of governance can't help but be evil.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 563 Location: Embakasi
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Lolest! wrote:mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. Maybe we try rotational presidency among different regions? I agree, something like Switzerland's using one rep from each of the former Provinces. In a place where thought is abandoned, freedom can become a curse.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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The voters lacks a clear understanding of responsibility bestowed to them by our constitution. Maybe we should start there. It will sought out any outstanding misconceptions. Raila is so much obsessed with presidency but if you analyse his backyard , democracy changes its meaning work to prosper
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/8/2017 Posts: 74
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Tokyo wrote:The voters lacks a clear understanding of responsibility bestowed to them by our constitution. Maybe we should start there. It will sought out any outstanding misconceptions. Raila is so much obsessed with presidency but if you analyse his backyard , democracy changes its meaning The political elite are our main undoing. they have created propaganda over the years that has led the voter to believe that the only way to better living is to have one of 'their own' at state house. Before the current crop of politicians are tamed,we are in this for quite sometime. As for raila's obsession with power,i think it has been good for the country.As @kusadikisa said he has probably contributed more to democracy than any politician we have today.maybe we should pray that he never gets to the house on the hill so that he continues his good fight for a better country.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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mobutu123 wrote:Am not sure if elections are doing any service to this great country.The outcome leaves us more divided,the 'victors' ride rough-shoddy over the 'losers' and the country seems to be in some sought of state of emergency to the end.May be we should look for another way of choosing our so called leaders. tujaribu kingdom kama saudi arabia. I agree. We should make kenya a kingdom/monarchy with Ngina the Queen mother, and Ohuru the King. Then in future have ohuru II, Ohuru III, Ohuru IV etc etc. That way the country can know our leaders for the next several hundred years and stop this unhealthy political competition and we can concentrate on things that matter like the economy. Kings and queens made European countries evolve, industrialize and become powerful, just what Kenya needs.
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