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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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This problem is caused by environment and the kind of exposure child faced during upbringing. It is the consequence of wrong exposure to such things while growing up...
It might start when young girls play with each others genitals, or young boys experiencing with their genitals and as they do it, they might like the feeling. What happens is that sexual urge rises in the child while growing up towards the same gender and they ended up develop such habits.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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As I wrote before (Posted: Tue, Jan 07, 2014 12:01:45 PM)
It takes a lot of effort to raise children. As a parent, you must put extra effort to try and make your children grow normal, and avoid influence that might lead into bad habit. Let me highlight the teachings of Islam that might be of help to us, especially parents.
The Prophet of Islam has said:
1. When the child reaches the age of 7 years, arrange a separate bed for him/her.
2. When girls reach 10 years, they must have separate individual beds, but the beds can be in same room.
3. When boys and girls reach ten years, they must have separate rooms and separate individual beds.
4. A man should not kiss his 6/7 year old daughter, and a woman should not kiss her seven year old son.
Other teachings
1. It is not proper that a four years old son takes a shower along with his mother. Similarly a four years old daughter should not bathe with her father.
2. The children and youth should NOT remain alone doing nothing, they might experiment and engage in some bad habits.
3. The private parts of a small boy must be kept covered, not exposed, to his other siblings. (I know most of you will ask what about those Turkanas walking naked)
4. The husband and wife should not sleep on one bed in the presence of their children. They should do their private relationship without giving a hint about it to the children.
5. A girl 6/7 years old should not sleep in same bed with another, even her own mother, "If a mother rubs her body against the body of her own daughter, she is doing a sort of molestation"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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I disagree with those who insist that this is biological.
Such people remained alone doing nothing while they were children and youth, and they ended up experimenting among themselves and they liked the feeling, ended up engaging. Eventually became a habit. Unfortunately...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Sexual urge is natural, Sex and sexuality, that is natural.
But finding sexual pleasure within same gender is unnatural manifestation of a natural urge.
I know some people say this is beyond their control. They say they don't find women. And he says he was created this way. In response to this, we cannot go to biological arguments, because we know one thing; every one of us has temptation and desires that sometimes are harmful to us. Speaking from the point of view of Islam, my religion tells us that one of the job of the religion is to protect us from those temptations that would harm us.
LET US LOOK AT OTHER EXAMPLES OF TEMPTATIONS WHICH ARE HARMFUL TO US IF GIVEN IN.
Example 1: I'm a man and I have no quarrel in admitting that as a man I'm attracted to beautiful women. This is part and parcel of being a man. I'm sure big percentage of my fellow men agree that a beautiful woman has effects on us. Now, does that justify me lusting after every beautiful woman on earth? Does that justify me saying you know what, I can't help it? Should I go for every lady that I see beautiful? Would anybody agree to such type of logic?
Example 2: the kleptomania, those with a recurrent urge to steal, typically without regard for need or profit. One of them will say, I have plenty of money, but as I walk on the street and I see stuff on that I can put in my pocket, there is this urge inside me I can't help it, I just want to take it and steal it. What if he says this in a court of law and the judge says well it is okay God created you to be a kleptomaniac so go ahead.
Example 3: what if a murderer says I can't help it. This urge is coming to me and I just want to kill people. Of course I'm not equating murder to homosexuality but what if this person says I can't help it.
The answer is, no you can help it. The urge might be beyond your control but you can cater to it by blocking it. Or channeling it in a permissible manner.
So back to my example, if I have a lust for a woman who is not permissible to me to lust after, well then I have to control the urge. And I have to find happiness within the confine of marriage. And that's what my religions tells us to do.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2012 Posts: 331 Location: Vantage point
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Let's just take for instance a very random example about a renowned world con artist. We all know that the skill to con is first practiced, learned and perfected in life through exposure, so nothing biological there. Say this con artist in his lifetime of evading capture, had an affair with someone of the opposite sex and because of the nature of his work, he couldn't stay around to father his kid. Here is where it gets very, very, very interesting. This kid grows up, fatherless, but somehow without anyone's intervention, becomes a con artist! See what's going on here. There are one too many examples that I will not go into at this time. One would reason it is totally biological but that's not true. There's noting good about stealing, if anything it breaks one of the ten commandments and here we are seeing it illogically being passed down generations. It has everything to do with generational curses visiting to the fourth generation. So essentially if homosexuality was being practiced in the first generation, somehow it get's sucked into the family lineage and more complicated identities start arising leading to the presence of transgenderism in that family lineage. The patterns in life never change! masukuma wrote:
Do the Jews follow their ancient teachings?
That's flawed. Jews are human as much as we all are. You can't use them as a yardstick to determine your own actions. The faith originated with God, not with the Jews. The thing unique about them is that they are God's chosen nation (the apple of God's eye) and through them, the faith came. Better even, who do you think you are going to be accountable to for every careless uttered word/action you did at the end of time before the great white throne of judgement? Do you think your question is going to mean anything? AlphDoti wrote:This problem is caused by environment and the kind of exposure child faced during upbringing. It is the consequence of wrong exposure to such things while growing up...
It might start when young girls play with each others genitals, or young boys experiencing with their genitals and as they do it, they might like the feeling. What happens is that sexual urge rises in the child while growing up towards the same gender and they ended up develop such habits. Very true, that is the problem... Moral decay. In Christian terms, we call it building of mental strongholds (some are negative others are positive). These mental strongholds in many circumstances may take an equivalent amount of time to break through rehabilitation. Same exact thing with drugs, same exact thing with pornography, same exact thing with alcoholism. AlphDoti wrote:I disagree with those who insist that this is biological.
Such people remained alone doing nothing while they were children and youth, and they ended up experimenting among themselves and they liked the feeling, ended up engaging. Eventually became a habit. Unfortunately... Very true! I am convinced, there is a state of mind which takes a disease like form in a person where vivid reasoning and definition between right and wrong morals seize to exist completely. To you, you can't explain or fathom how or what could lead such a person to go ahead and commit such acts of immorality and state that they were born like that.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:This problem is caused by environment and the kind of exposure child faced during upbringing. It is the consequence of wrong exposure to such things while growing up...
It might start when young girls play with each others genitals, or young boys experiencing with their genitals and as they do it, they might like the feeling. What happens is that sexual urge rises in the child while growing up towards the same gender and they ended up develop such habits. how would you know? again... what about intersex... All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2011 Posts: 181 Location: Nairobi
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You know what else is not biological? Pseudo-intellectualism. It must only require that you hastily jot down whatever first thought that comes to mind – however mind boggling - as long as it massages your vanity. Leaves a smirk on your face at the thought of how intelligent you sound! Great thinker and scribe. Effortless. Perhaps a product of one’s environment since biology does not apply. It allows you to invent assertions (usually fallacious) and hold them as truths (often not) and self-evident (logic is often hard to follow), sprinkled with some religiosity (the only selective unrelated evidence) as an anchor. Woe to you that offer alternate thought and you are reminded how futile your access to the white throne will be (whiteness and heavenly - what to make of that? ). Someone once said “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Apricot wrote:You know what else is not biological? Pseudo-intellectualism. It must only require that you hastily jot down whatever first thought that comes to mind – however mind boggling - as long as it massages your vanity. Leaves a smirk on your face at the thought of how intelligent you sound! Great thinker and scribe. Effortless. Perhaps a product of one’s environment since biology does not apply.
It allows you to invent assertions (usually fallacious) and hold them as truths (often not) and self-evident (logic is often hard to follow), sprinkled with some religiosity (the only selective unrelated evidence) as an anchor. Woe to you that offer alternate thought and you are reminded how futile your access to the white throne will be (whiteness and heavenly - what to make of that? ). Someone once said “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
it's called closed loop thinking - I remember reading about a british Naturalist called Philip Henry Gosse who wrote a book titled 'Omphalos'. in the book he insists that the world was created in 4004BC (circa 6021 years ago) and God created lots of apparent fossils to make the world look older than it actually is. This 'trick' by God is what has been misleading scientists since they discovered dating and fossils. It was great since all evidence related to dating that would be found would be proof to his theory and his theory would be invincible. except that closed loop thinking is like an armchair - keeps us busy and takes us no where! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2012 Posts: 331 Location: Vantage point
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2011 Posts: 181 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:Apricot wrote:You know what else is not biological? Pseudo-intellectualism. It must only require that you hastily jot down whatever first thought that comes to mind – however mind boggling - as long as it massages your vanity. Leaves a smirk on your face at the thought of how intelligent you sound! Great thinker and scribe. Effortless. Perhaps a product of one’s environment since biology does not apply.
It allows you to invent assertions (usually fallacious) and hold them as truths (often not) and self-evident (logic is often hard to follow), sprinkled with some religiosity (the only selective unrelated evidence) as an anchor. Woe to you that offer alternate thought and you are reminded how futile your access to the white throne will be (whiteness and heavenly - what to make of that? ). Someone once said “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
it's called closed loop thinking - I remember reading about a british Naturalist called Philip Henry Gosse who wrote a book titled 'Omphalos'. in the book he insists that the world was created in 4004BC (circa 6021 years ago) and God created lots of apparent fossils to make the world look older than it actually is. This 'trick' by God is what has been misleading scientists since they discovered dating and fossils. It was great since all evidence related to dating that would be found would be proof to his theory and his theory would be invincible. except that closed loop thinking is like an armchair - keeps us busy and takes us no where! The example you give shows how self-preservation trumps reason and can be damaging. That is a clear case of how theocratic entrapment is invented, when existing dogma can no longer hold back progress of knowledge. By so doing Gosse made sure no matter what conclusion was reached, his theory had it covered. But the profit making venture has to be retained at all costs you might say. As Pope Leo might have intimated in 1514. First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Drobos fly wrote:masukuma wrote:
Do the Jews follow their ancient teachings?
That's flawed. Jews are human as much as we all are. You can't use them as a yardstick to determine your own actions. The faith originated with God, not with the Jews. The thing unique about them is that they are God's chosen nation (the apple of God's eye) and through them, the faith came. @drobos, without turning this into a religious discourse, I just want to say you were correct at first, but went wrong towards end of your paragraph... Faith didn't originate from Jews. Ibrahim was father of faith. And Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor Christian. Jews are the sons of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel... Is that too hard to understand for an intelligent guy like you? NOTE: If you want to debate it religiously, let's take it to RELIGIOUS DISCOURSE thread...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:AlphDoti wrote:This problem is caused by environment and the kind of exposure child faced during upbringing. It is the consequence of wrong exposure to such things while growing up...
It might start when young girls play with each others genitals, or young boys experiencing with their genitals and as they do it, they might like the feeling. What happens is that sexual urge rises in the child while growing up towards the same gender and they ended up develop such habits. how would you know? again... what about intersex... If you refer to examples I gave, similarly, if a man lusts after another man, he has one of two options. Either he minimise this urge and find happiness in women, which is possible and it has been done. Or if he really finds it impossible well then the only alternative for him is to live a celibate life. Nobody is forcing a woman on him. Nobody is forcing him to get married. He has to battle that urge just like I have to battle urges for women that are not allowed for me. Just like the kleptomaniacs have to battle urges to steal. Just like the alcoholic when he passes by some alcohol and his doctor has told him not to drink, he remembers how alcohol tastes. Just like a drug addict. Just because he has the urge it does not justify manifestation of that urge. NOTE: people are battling different kind of urges but they DO NOT act on them due to its effect on ineself or society...Having said that, being does not disqualify you from being a good person. Just like drinking alcohol does not not necessarily mean you're a bad person. You can be a good person and be a homosexual. But I will tell this person what you're doing immoral according to the teachings of my faith, and Christinaity, and Judaism.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:
If you refer to examples I gave, similarly, if a man lusts after another man, he has one of two options. Either he minimise this urge and find happiness in women, which is possible and it has been done. Or if he really finds it impossible well then the only alternative for him is to live a celibate life. Nobody is forcing a woman on him. Nobody is forcing him to get married.
He has to battle that urgejust like I have to battle urges for women that are not allowed for me . Just like the kleptomaniacs have to battle urges to steal. Just like the alcoholic when he passes by some alcohol and his doctor has told him not to drink, he remembers how alcohol tastes. Just like a drug addict.
Just because he has the urge it does not justify manifestation of that urge.
NOTE: people are battling different kind of urges but they DO NOT act on them due to its effect on ineself or society...
Having said that, being does not disqualify you from being a good person. Just like drinking alcohol does not not necessarily mean you're a bad person. You can be a good person and be a homosexual. But I will tell this person what you're doing immoral according to the teachings of my faith, and Christinaity, and Judaism.
that's where you go wrong... YOU DICTATE TO HIM HIS OPTIONS!! Why should he live within your dictates and his actions do not affect you? Why does a leopard have to fight his spots? perhaps the bigger question is "Pilipili usioila,yakuwashia nini?" Why do you project your self imposed limitations on to another person? This person is not dictating to you to obey your "urges" why would you think you have some authority to dictate to him? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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Why is it that religious pious lunatics are the ones who want to control other people? Why is it that they are always always wrong on issues to do with science, biology and chemistry? Tembea dunia tafadhali. Being transgender is biological. When you think about it, it is your god who created them. And whatever he creates is perfect...according to you. You are the same fellas who used to take albinos to the edge of the forest. Because your god said so... your pastors and kadhis are the same ones who used to enslave black people...because your god said so... even the current wars about ISIS vs Jews vs Muslims vs etc etc...because your god said so.... you really like blaming your god for soooo many issues. Issues that should have been dealt with by simply being good people.. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Kleptomania
Definition
Kleptomania (klep-toe-MAY-nee-uh) is the recurrent failure to resist urges to steal items that you generally don't really need and that usually have little value. Kleptomania is a serious mental health disorder that can cause much emotional pain to you and your loved ones if not treated.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,554
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AlphDoti wrote:Kleptomania
Definition
Kleptomania (klep-toe-MAY-nee-uh) is the recurrent failure to resist urges to steal items that you generally don't really need and that usually have little value. Kleptomania is a serious mental health disorder that can cause much emotional pain to you and your loved ones if not treated. AGREE The kleptomaniac will blame god and the bible for forbidding stealing, he wants 'Anarchy' which is a bonafide social system, and can be tried, some people really pile so many of their own made problems on 'religion" and 'god' till you wonder where they thought about of these gods in the whole process. These manics kill each other violently by themselves, they are their worst own enemies, where they drag religion into their problems i don't know, super goggles. It's like they have never read history to know this issues have been there without "god" and the issues are in them, not their "gods", it's a kind of ukabila ujinga where a fellow who thinks "he is perfect thinking" and must find a "victim" for his imperfections, because yeye ni "intelligent sana" to be wrong, culprit, religion and god, kila saa, and some garbage ideas of science to boot, why? Ask Trump, kuna ujinga ingine bwana! Yet they are always thinking of god, and blaming "god" which god is this they see and fight 100% of the time everywhere? Talk of delusional. Meru Holiness
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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alma1 wrote:Why is it that religious pious lunatics are the ones who want to control other people?
Why is it that they are always always wrong on issues to do with science, biology and chemistry?
Tembea dunia tafadhali. Being transgender is biological. When you think about it, it is your god who created them. And whatever he creates is perfect...according to you.
You are the same fellas who used to take albinos to the edge of the forest. Because your god said so...
your pastors and kadhis are the same ones who used to enslave black people...because your god said so...
even the current wars about ISIS vs Jews vs Muslims vs etc etc...because your god said so....
you really like blaming your god for soooo many issues. Issues that should have been dealt with by simply being good people.. Alma you have no chill....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:Kleptomania
Definition
Kleptomania (klep-toe-MAY-nee-uh) is the recurrent failure to resist urges to steal items that you generally don't really need and that usually have little value. Kleptomania is a serious mental health disorder that can cause much emotional pain to you and your loved ones if not treated. I know who a Kleptomaniac is... I KNEW ABOUT IT IN PRIMARY SCHOOL! (Student's companion anyone?... but I digress) yeah... to steal whose stuff? I can see how it would be undesirable to have someone around me stealing MY STUFF!! regardless of what his excuse is... it's my stuff. if a kleptomaniac stole his stuff... sioni shida. or even better they got into a club where they allowed each other to steal from each other but to no one outside that group - it's none of my business. Don't you see - your rights end where mine begin! their right to express and fulfill their urges end where mine begin. so back again... how are your rights being infringed? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2012 Posts: 331 Location: Vantage point
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AlphDoti wrote:
@drobos, without turning this into a religious discourse, I just want to say you were correct at first, but went wrong towards end of your paragraph...
Faith didn't originate from Jews. Ibrahim was father of faith. And Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor Christian. Jews are the sons of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel... Is that too hard to understand for an intelligent guy like you?
NOTE: If you want to debate it religiously, let's take it to RELIGIOUS DISCOURSE thread...
I don't know where I wrote that Faith originated from the Jews as you claim. You may have read a little too too fast filling in details that were not there. I know that Abraham was the father of faith and I know he used to worship Sin a moon god before his walked changed when God started walking with him. I know Jacob fathered Israel. Anyway, let me just cut to the chase on that.... I know you are a Muslim and I'm a born again believer. We tend toward the same thing but differ on certain matters like of Jesus (Mohamed), the Trinity and the reason for the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives and various other many things that I will not go into for thread-jacking reasons. You cannot save yourself from sin unless God through His Spirit reveals your state and leads you in a path that saves you, so I'm not going to bulldoze around trying to show others that their opinions are wrong. It's not my work to save people or to open their eyes, it's my work to share the Word of God as I know it and have learnt it. To me it's futile engaging in a RELIGIOUS DISCOURSE thread.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Drobos fly wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Drobos fly wrote:masukuma wrote:
Do the Jews follow their ancient teachings?
That's flawed. Jews are human as much as we all are. You can't use them as a yardstick to determine your own actions. The faith originated with God, not with the Jews. The thing unique about them is that they are God's chosen nation (the apple of God's eye) and through them, the faith came. @drobos, without turning this into a religious discourse, I just want to say you were correct at first, but went wrong towards end of your paragraph... Faith didn't originate from Jews. Ibrahim was father of faith. And Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor Christian. Jews are the sons of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel... Is that too hard to understand for an intelligent guy like you? NOTE: If you want to debate it religiously, let's take it to RELIGIOUS DISCOURSE thread... I don't know where I wrote that Faith originated from the Jews as you claim. You may have read a little too too fast filling in details that were not there. I know that Abraham was the father of faith and I know he used to worship Sin a moon god before his walked changed when God started walking with him. I know Jacob fathered Israel. Anyway, let me just cut to the chase on that.... I know you are a Muslim and I'm a born again believer. We tend toward the same thing but differ on certain matters like of Jesus (Mohamed), the Trinity and the reason for the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives and various other many things that I will not go into for thread-jacking reasons. You cannot save yourself from sin unless God through His Spirit reveals your state and leads you in a path that saves you, so I'm not going to bulldoze around trying to show others that their opinions are wrong. It's not my work to save people or to open their eyes, it's my work to share the Word of God as I know it and have learnt it. To me it's futile engaging in a RELIGIOUS DISCOURSE thread. Sorry, you didn't say "Faith originated from the Jews"... You said "faith came through Jews". You are forgetting faith did not go through only the Jews. Abraham was not a Jew. I wanted to point out your blind support for Jews... I want to remind you a Christian that they should not forget it is Jewish teaching that Jesus, the son of Mary, is considered to be a ‘bastard’ and an ‘imposter’ whose death "by hanging". Ati God chosen people. Sad to see Christian fall for racism in the Bible... Deuteronomy 23:3 “ An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; ...shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever;”
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