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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,721
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This is an excellent thread. Any person who has thought about it deeply has had to struggle with this question and I just wanted to share for those interested writings of some famous thinkers who have struggled with the same question. This first one is by Jean Jacques Rousseau who lived from 1712-1778. It is an excerpt from his Book "Emile or on education" http://library.umac.mo/ebooks/b1362605x.pdf
This second one is by Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) who looks at the church strictly as a Historian and tries to answer the question. Why has the church been so successful at what it does? This is also an excerpt from a bigger book "Decline and fall of the Roman Empire." https://www.ccel.org/g/g...line/volume1/chap15.htm
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Iganamagana wrote:hamburglar wrote:You are dangerously close to liberation the moment you start questioning religion and gods.
I have never had any doubts about my atheism. Not even for one minute.
You guys all have doubts about religion and that right there speaks volumes. Something is definitely amiss somewhere.
I honestly feel sorry for religious people, they are depriving themselves of a lot of happiness with all that nonsense.
I have never been so sure of anything in my life like how sure I am about atheism. I am more sure of this than I am of tycho being clinically insane. And we all know that Tycho is a certified nutjob. Boss. Can you go into hiding right away? Yeah. In my mother's womb. Right away!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Faith and religion are different, no? Faith is what happens inside you, religion is what you do to get inside.
Religion isn't simply a tool for mass control. At the moment, mass control is in the hands of consumerism and tightly regulated labor conditions on the one hand and a pseudo-scientific understanding of the world. That's enough for mass control, which by the way carries a promise of heaven on earth.
Religiosity is what most of us engage in, and that's why faith is lost. You confuse religion for faith. And being extrinsic the spirit of the times carry you away.
But knowledge is always limited and changing and only contemplation and meditation, study, labor and exercise are need to see the 'invisible'. These activities are part and parcel of religion.
Religion is also a collective activity... can the collective celebration of atheism escape religiousness?
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/27/2015 Posts: 130
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tycho wrote:Faith and religion are different, no? Faith is what happens inside you, religion is what you do to get inside.
Religion isn't simply a tool for mass control. At the moment, mass control is in the hands of consumerism and tightly regulated labor conditions on the one hand and a pseudo-scientific understanding of the world. That's enough for mass control, which by the way carries a promise of heaven on earth.
Religiosity is what most of us engage in, and that's why faith is lost. You confuse religion for faith. And being extrinsic the spirit of the times carry you away.
But knowledge is always limited and changing and only contemplation and meditation, study, labor and exercise are need to see the 'invisible'. These activities are part and parcel of religion.
Religion is also a collective activity... can the collective celebration of atheism escape religiousness?
For once I understand @ Tycho and he is on point. Religion & faith r 2 different things, all those struggling with religion u will notice come from main stream churches, catholic, Pcea, Anglican. Nothing against the big churches but their way of doing things prevents the Lords spirit from moving in the right way. Their praise n worship is none existent n there is too much politics. Solution for @Ngogoyo & company try listening to worship songs in traffic, gym.. passively n slowly but surely your spirit will connect with that of God then listen to ppl like Masinde on tv and you will find what you are looking for.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Jesus said: if you keep my commandments you shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father's Commandments and abide in His love (John 15.10). Jesus was teaching submission and obedience to God's Law.
Islaam is an Arabic word which comes from the word silm which means submission, acceptance of and obedience to God's Commandments. As a result of which salaam, peace and happiness, becomes available.
What Jesus was teaching was what is called in Arabic Islaam.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muslim is an Arabic word which means one who accepts and follows God's Law. In this respect Jesus was Muslim and those who followed him, his disciples, were Muslims.
To submit = Kusalimu amri = Kusilimu.
Remember Jesus was speaking to the Israelites when he said: the Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you and given to a nation bringing the fruits thereof (Matthew 21:43). Which was that nation? Of course it must be a another nation different from Jews... The Nation of Islaam: Muslims.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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If we go back a bit in history, the Israelites, the idea in their minds got narrowed down to that of a tribal God. But their ancestors like Jacob (whose name was changed to Israel in the Bible) had the principle of worshiping ONE GOD, the One True and Universal God.
The Jews or Christians claim the merits of Father Abraham and of Jesus, BUT DO THEY FOLLOW THEM? Because there were righteous men in the past, it cannot help us unless we are ourselves righteous.
The Jews initially, though taught Unity, went after false gods, and the Christians invented the Trinity or borrowed it from Paganism. We must go back to pure, the doctrine of Abraham, to live and die in faith in the One True God.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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So, for you to be safe; you should believe in (1) the One Universal God, (2) the Message delivered by Teachers (messengers and prophets) in the past, these are Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon them all... Moses and Jesus, left a scripture; unfortunately their scriptures are not in their pristine form; Do not make difference between any of these messengers...
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2011 Posts: 181 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:Muslim is an Arabic word which means one who accepts and follows God's Law. In this respect Jesus was Muslim and those who followed him, his disciples, were Muslims.
To submit = Kusalimu amri = Kusilimu.
Remember Jesus was speaking to the Israelites when he said: the Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you and given to a nation bringing the fruits thereof (Matthew 21:43). Which was that nation? Of course it must be a another nation different from Jews... The Nation of Islaam: Muslims. @ Alphadoti. You are preaching to the choir. Selective pick of bible verses to justify your view point is not going to convert anyone. You also simply cannot create your own claim out of the same verses! Point to us from the same bible you have quoted where it says or shows that" Of course it must be a another nation different from Jews... The Nation of Islaam: Muslims". First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/5/2014 Posts: 47
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AlphDoti wrote:If we go back a bit in history, the Israelites, the idea in their minds got narrowed down to that of a tribal God. But their ancestors like Jacob (whose name was changed to Israel in the Bible) had the principle of worshiping ONE GOD, the One True and Universal God.
The Jews or Christians claim the merits of Father Abraham and of Jesus, BUT DO THEY FOLLOW THEM? Because there were righteous men in the past, it cannot help us unless we are ourselves righteous.
The Jews initially, though taught Unity, went after false gods, and the Christians invented the Trinity or borrowed it from Paganism. We must go back to pure, the doctrine of Abraham, to live and die in faith in the One True God. Yahweh?
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