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Religion and Family
Ngogoyo
#1 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:49:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 561
Location: House
My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.

Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.

I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.

I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.

Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion

My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?

I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!

There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.

I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.

Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!

@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?
Iganamagana
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:36:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/27/2009
Posts: 1,437
You are not alone brother. You have put it as it is. Facing the same dilemma here.
tycho
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:24:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Ngogoyo wrote:
My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.

Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.

I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.

I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.

Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion

My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?

I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!

There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.

I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.

Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!

@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?


If you think religion has a legitimate purpose, why do you have to pretend to believe in it? Or why are you in a dilemma? It should be easy to choose what to do since you believe in purpose and order!

But since you're asking, then the belief you're stating is to be questioned.

On the other hand, you're telling us about what you're NOT motivated to do; can you tell us what you're motivated to do?
Angelica _ann
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:38:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
Mutachomeka kweli kweli, nyinyi ndiye mutakuwa kibrit ya kuwasha lot yenu d'oh! smile smile smile
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Alba
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:49:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Listen to Muzina di Tata by Tabu Ley

And you will be motivated to pray.
IMHO You don't have to follow any particular religion.
maka
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:52:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Ngogoyo wrote:
My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.

Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.

I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.

I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.

Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion

My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?

I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!

There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.

I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.

Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!

@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?


I actually have the same issue...my faith has waned of lateSad Sad Sad
possunt quia posse videntur
FRM2011
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:02:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
Ngogoyo wrote:
My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.

Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.

I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.

I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.

Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion

My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?

I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!

There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.

I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.

Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!

@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?


Tuko wengi. This is how I do it. Make sure your kids always go to church. Don't impose your philosophical standpoint on them.

Don't share with family members. You have no idea how powerful religion is. Can do terrible damage especially to parents.

Like you I also believe there is a supreme power but not the one described in the Bible. The Bible one was supposed to be a God of Israelis and no one else. The ruthlessness and savagery with which he dismantled anyone else to clear the way for his people leaves no doubt.

I don't discuss with anyone my beliefs. These Christian believers are no joke. They will cut you off from their social circles and refuse to do business with you.
Ngogoyo
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:04:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 561
Location: House
tycho wrote:


If you think religion has a legitimate purpose
, why do you have to pretend to believe in it? Or why are you in a dilemma? It should be easy to choose what to do since you believe in purpose and order!

But since you're asking, then the belief you're stating is to be questioned.

On the other hand, you're telling us about what you're NOT motivated to do; can you tell us what you're motivated to do?


I only appreciate it but i don't think that is the right tool to bring order in society. I believe in one using the brain that his maker gave him and in law and order

I seek to know how i can be motivated to bring at consensus my believe and that of my family plus society and at the same time be at peace with that situation

I guess i need to start pretending for the sake of it...dilemma is how??
Ngogoyo
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:08:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 561
Location: House
Iganamagana wrote:
You are not alone brother. You have put it as it is. Facing the same dilemma here.


Do you accompany your wife and children to church?

@AA how do you convince yourself to do something against your logic just because you are afraid to get burnt in a fire that no one has ever come back to tell us about?

Why would we get burnt for failing to accept that which we were not convinced about!!!!!
Ngogoyo
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:12:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 561
Location: House
Alba wrote:
Listen to Muzina di Tata by Tabu Ley

And you will be motivated to pray.
IMHO You don't have to follow any particular religion.



Unfortunately or fortunately smile i don't understand french no congolese.

and you are right i dont have to follow any religion but how about my kids and wife? i dont want them to go it alone without my leadership and am afraid my current situation and beliefs are contractly to society expectation

i also want people to attend my burial smile and Father to preside not necessary to burry me but to reassure my family am in the right place and for them to have a lasting memory of me.

Given a choice i would go cremation way. and live as morally as possible.
Ngogoyo
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:23:38 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 561
Location: House
FRM2011 wrote:
Ngogoyo wrote:
My dilemma,
I can’t seem to get motivated to attend church nor listen to prayers or read bible.

Am a catholic by upbringing but I can’t ever recall even one time when I ever enjoyed being in the church or serving in the church. My parents brought me very well in the church and I have an obligation to do the same for my son and wife.

I was an altar boy way back and in high school I was an official in the CA but after high school I couldn’t stomach being hypocritical and just doing something to make others happy.

I stopped going to church and I only do if there is a burial or wedding and even in these times, I detest the readings and preaching so I look for all ways to escape them. I hate the hypocritical long prayers.

Am not like @Humbugler but I agree with most of his points on dislike for religion

My wife has a different sect by upbringing so I just allowed her to continue but I got to start going to church (catholic) and take her and son with me. How can I motivate myself?

I do appreciate the role of religion in bringing cohesion in the society, comforting people and giving a purpose to life but that’s where it ends for me. I have a problem believing in much of the principles like Jesus, Jews, Israel, contentious stories, the bible etc.
I do believe there is a higher power and for sure I came from somewhere!

There is a real problem in the current church set up and its money minded policies which they always try to mask. Elders/officials being holier than thou on Sunday but source of their wealth is evil, immoral etc.

I can’t understand with all these churches and mosques, where is there so much corruption, killing, theft etc in the society. I can’t manage to reconcile all that.

Ooh and they tell me judge not!!!

@masukuma how do you do it since I have read in the past something you posted on this forum in regard to this? Do you just pretend?


Tuko wengi. This is how I do it. Make sure your kids always go to church. Don't impose your philosophical standpoint on them.

Don't share with family members. You have no idea how powerful religion is. Can do terrible damage especially to parents.

Like you I also believe there is a supreme power but not the one described in the Bible. The Bible one was supposed to be a God of Israelis and no one else. The ruthlessness and savagery with which he dismantled anyone else to clear the way for his people leaves no doubt.

I don't discuss with anyone my beliefs. These Christian believers are no joke. They will cut you off from their social circles and refuse to do business with you.


This might work and you are right these believers are dangerous. I have realised even my mum for the last 5 or so years has been asking probing questionsPray

Even my wife thinks i'm evil where religion is concernedLaughing out loudly

why do we have to get baptised and given an english name WHYYYYY. d'oh! we were colonised in beliefs as well!!

I will stop discussing my beliefs from now and just pretend. Thanks @FRM for sharing this.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:27:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
My my..

We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.

I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.

I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)

Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Ngogoyo
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:37:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 561
Location: House
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
My my..

We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.

I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.

dont you feel a sense of 'losing out' when you don't accompany your children to church or pray with them?

I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)

Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife.


I am very sure people are suspicious of each other. Laughing out loudly . Its comforting and at the same time worrtying that i am not alone in this.

I will study Hinduism (of course for sport), Islam no. My wife would bring the whole church for prayers if she was to see the Koran in our house.

I fully agree with your sentiments.

tycho
#14 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:41:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Ngogoyo wrote:

tycho wrote:


If you think religion has a legitimate purpose
, why do you have to pretend to believe in it? Or why are you in a dilemma? It should be easy to choose what to do since you believe in purpose and order!

But since you're asking, then the belief you're stating is to be questioned.

On the other hand, you're telling us about what you're NOT motivated to do; can you tell us what you're motivated to do?


I only appreciate it but i don't think that is the right tool to bring order in society. I believe in one using the brain that his maker gave him and in law and order

I seek to know how i can be motivated to bring at consensus my believe and that of my family plus society and at the same time be at peace with that situation

I guess i need to start pretending for the sake of it...dilemma is how??


Great. If this is your interest there are perhaps three options:

1. Embark on a journey to create a narrative that can fulfill the stated conditions

2. Wait for some other person to forge a narrative for you while pretending

3. Accept that your faith in religion has waned and watch what happens to you and if inclined to anything, quench your thirst with it!

Well, 1 and 3 seem to be compatible, 2 is a cause for sickness and I'd suggest you avoid it.
Angelica _ann
#15 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:49:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
Ngogoyo wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
My my..

We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.

I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.

dont you feel a sense of 'losing out' when you don't accompany your children to church or pray with them?

I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)

Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife.


I am very sure people are suspicious of each other. Laughing out loudly . Its comforting and at the same time worrtying that i am not alone in this.

I will study Hinduism (of course for sport), Islam no. My wife would bring the whole church for prayers if she was to see the Koran in our house.

I fully agree with your sentiments.



That is very true...... you can study any other religion for whatever reason but not Islam ~ Radicalization tingz. I would even report you to the local chief, OCS, Family wote and your employer. Also hold a night of vigil and prayer for you. Of course conjugal rights will go until you recover your senses, siwezi na Muslim smile smile smile
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
murchr
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:58:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
My my..

We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.

I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.

I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)

Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife.


This one is a very good one. I go to church because I find peace there sometimes after a chaotic work week. But I ask questions--and lots of them all the time. Why should we all conform and follow the God of Israel? There are 4200 religions or belief systems in the world, why should someone force/threaten/intimidate me to follow one?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radio
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:29:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 2,003
@ngogoyo, how long have you had this struggle? Do you think it is a phase of life you can overcome over time?

Anyone who has been down this road of unbelief and changed later?
Alba
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:33:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
Ngogoyo wrote:
Alba wrote:
Listen to Muzina di Tata by Tabu Ley

And you will be motivated to pray.
IMHO You don't have to follow any particular religion.



Unfortunately or fortunately smile i don't understand french no congolese.



In case you are interested , that blog page does have a translation of Muzina and other songs.

Your family should also follow whichever church makes them comfortable even if its your own Church at home.

And surely your burial will be attended by friends / relatives
Much Know
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:49:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Ngogoyo wrote:
you are right i dont have to follow any religion but how about my kids and wife?


Was taught ages back that the mother traditionally/kienyeji is "naturally programmed" to offer early childhood lessons, "asiye fuzwa ni mamaye, hufunzwa na ulimwengu".

Please support the mother and the kids with sadaka because even before the teenage years, they will start asking the same questions you are asking. As you may have noticed, all the similar complaints are from wazua males, and they all CONFIRM that their WIVES PLAY AUTOMATICALLY the spiritual educational role in early years upto around 14 years when they begin to "rebel".

For organisational and good cognitive and LANGUAGE development, leave it to the mother, even the language of spirituality. The child only needs to observe behavior in the father, and listen to the mother, especially boys. Don't feel jealous and want to play a similar role.

On the core issue of "spiritual development", your kids are individuals, just like you, the will raise the same questions you raise. Just support the natural role of a "good woman", they/you have very good wives!
A New Kenya
tycho
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:49:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
My my..

We are a big grouping. I also suffer the same dilemma. Initially I used to get into arguments Humbuglar style and strongly denounce religion for all the hypocrisy it stands for. But after getting kids and a family, I have mellowed down and accepted its place in society.

I don't go to church but my wife takes the kids to church although she may skip one or two sometimes. The kids get a lot of religious education and dogma in school so to avoid confusing them, its best you take them to church because society demands it.

I would recommend you read about other religions. - Islam is easy to get, its simply Christianity which has been radicalized (or stuck in the middle ages) and turned into a political system
- Hinduism is very interesting and in my opinion has done the most to explain origin, spirits, afterlife and the existence of a higher power.
- Budhism is all about self (have to confess I have not given it enough time)

Reading this convinced me that religion exists to explain death and afterlife.


This one is a very good one. I go to church because I find peace there sometimes after a chaotic work week. But I ask questions--and lots of them all the time. Why should we all conform and follow the God of Israel? There are 4200 religions or belief systems in the world, why should someone force/threaten/intimidate me to follow one?


The magick of Israel is too powerful that even if you abandon religion, you still face it. Even atheism must disintegrate at its power.


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