Wazua
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I am voting No
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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TWO GUARDS AT THE GATE ARE VOTING NO Guard One: Me I come from far away. We've been opressed for too long and they're saying ati we have to go sijui where to get our land. Ni mbaya tuiangushe hii kitu.
Guard Two: Ni chafu. Ule mtu anachafuanga amesha chafua. Na nimesema NO.
Is it dishonest what's happening on the ground? But hey, 'a life has been saved'. The end justifies the means.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@pound, good point. Sec 32 (2) "Every person has the right, either individually or in community withothers, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief throughworship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of aday of worship. will this allow me to start a religion called masukumanizim that worships on Mondays? will I be allowed to worship on that day that i have chosen to observe? That religion's belief is that God created the world and rested on a monday - so i should not work at all! we had highlighted the loopholes of the treaties and international law since we are not sure who Kenya in Quote:..ratified by Kenya.. is All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/4/2009 Posts: 37
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I understand there are two copies circulating, there are the right copies from CoE and the wrong ones from whose source and intentions are not known,may be it's out of negligence, computer error or mistake, beware you might engage with a person you are reading from absolutely different scripts.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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masukuma wrote:@pound, good point. Sec 32 (2) "Every person has the right, either individually or in community withothers, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief throughworship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of aday of worship. will this allow me to start a religion called masukumanizim that worships on Mondays? will I be allowed to worship on that day that i have chosen to observe? That religion's belief is that God created the world and rested on a monday - so i should not work at all! we had highlighted the loopholes of the treaties and international law since we are not sure who Kenya in Quote:..ratified by Kenya.. is @Masukuma what would you rather they said? that you do not have a right to worship? or they list down the churches that are acceptable? Or the beliefs to be followed? And we shall be all armed to shoot it down because it "restricts" our right to worship? Sasa mtaka nini? See what i mean when i say that voting NO will never take us anywhere? we shall have issues with every clause and when are we going to please everyone?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/24/2008 Posts: 781
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who cares,who cares!!!! The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/16/2009 Posts: 1,464
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To have a Katiba that everyone agrees with will take a minimum of a HUNDRED BILLION years.
You vote as you please!
I will not tick the box for yes, I shall write YES in caps(he he spolit vote....)
Just remember this one thing:
Baks & Rao stole millions of votes and they were in separate camps - each checking the other not to rig.
Now they sleep in the same bed.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/8/2007 Posts: 885
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folks, unfortunately, the 2 major secretariats that allegedly aided and abbeted rigging in 2007, are pro-draft. returning officers will go mteja, the dead will vote and return to their tombs, voter turnout in certain rural constituencies may exced 100%, form 16A's will be disappear and surface at KICC, then kriegler will be called in to utter his most famous phrase...' I cannot with certainity tell who won.....' tupende tusipende this bad draft itapita, but the NO chaps should not be discouraged. personally am still kinda undecided but leaning towards NO. and in the unlikely event I have a change of heart, I will vote wearing white gloves
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/26/2010 Posts: 71 Location: Thika/Nairobi
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In regards to the Kadhi courts, the common concerns I have heard raised have primarily been that people feel one religion is being favored over the others and that this could lead to the stifling of other religious freedoms as well as extremism of the "favored" religion. Our current court system is built and borrowed from British Christian tradition and our lawyers are trained in this tradition and have no training in Islamic law or traditional law for that matter. Therefore, the same principle the courts apply when they call upon those well versed in traditional matters to help in adjudicating matters concerning traditional laws, is the same principle that the Khadis courts are established under. Christians with personal woes go to a subordinate court which is modeled after their faith therefore those versed in Islamic law are hired by the government to adjudicate on similar issues for Muslims. Neither the Christian nor the Muslim nor the traditionalist pays for family disputes between their followers. The tax payer, who is Christian, Muslim, Traditionalist or Other, foots the bill in all these scenarios. So there is no semblance of favoritism of one religion over another. http://echoproperties.kbo.co.ke Echo estate management Limited
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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@Wendz
get the drift.. its not that they should have specified the churches.. infact they should have included that thing in there..
because that part in itself opens up other religions.sect, cults and OCCULTS.. i mean religions way out of what we consider normal religions.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/24/2009 Posts: 273
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IF YOU PREFER THE NEW CONSTITUTION TO THE OLD, ACCEPT THE NEW, VOTE "YES". IF YOU PREFER THE OLD CONSTITUTION TO THE NEW, ACCEPT THE OLD, VOTE "NO". Just be sure to have strong convictions of your own for whichever decision you take. Because you owe it to posterity. Guys let's be part of the history of this great nation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@Wendz, they are the experts - we paid them to write the draft. I should not do their work. @ECHOKENYA, the law we have has nothing to do with Christianity - Nothing!!! It only originated in Britain and Britain has nothing to do with Christianity. (Lets not define Christianity lest everyone who bears a Jewish or European name here takes offense). What Faith is this? Jesus Christ - the author of Christianity had 2 laws Jesus wrote: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
the rest is just British European law. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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ECHOKENYA wrote:In regards to the Kadhi courts, the common concerns I have heard raised have primarily been that people feel one religion is being favored over the others and that this could lead to the stifling of other religious freedoms as well as extremism of the "favored" religion.
Our current court system is built and borrowed from British Christian tradition and our lawyers are trained in this tradition and have no training in Islamic law or traditional law for that matter. Therefore, the same principle the courts apply when they call upon those well versed in traditional matters to help in adjudicating matters concerning traditional laws, is the same principle that the Khadis courts are established under.
Christians with personal woes go to a subordinate court which is modeled after their faith therefore those versed in Islamic law are hired by the government to adjudicate on similar issues for Muslims. Neither the Christian nor the Muslim nor the traditionalist pays for family disputes between their followers. The tax payer, who is Christian, Muslim, Traditionalist or Other, foots the bill in all these scenarios. So there is no semblance of favoritism of one religion over another. This claims of our laws being allegedly modeled on judo-christianism is nauseating. For all I care, the laws we have are laws we have suggested to the drafters of the constitution, and the rest will be passed by parliament that we elect. As you suggested, it would all be fine if everybody went to the same subordinate courts, then invited experts in their traditional/kadhi laws to advise the court. That way, nobody would be complaining Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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@EchoKenya Please give us examples of existing laws modelled on the Christian faith. Our laws on marriage and succession, although having hints of christianity have now being neutralised and even in some cases incorporation aspects of customary law. Unless you wish to claim that the Companies Act and the Capital Markets Act borrow from Christianity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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@mpenzi
heard a Magistrate admit they cannot handle matters of muslim laws on such issues as marriage as compared to a christian one. They actuallly have to get a sheikh/kadhi to help out
reason being the system/school of law in such matters is more christian biased.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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Dont we wish we all had this right!!!!! Some would have gone home immediately they get to that mbunge!
Right of recall 104. (1) The electorate under Articles 97 and 98 have the right to recall the member of Parliament representing their constituency before the end of the term of the relevant House of Parliament. (2) Parliament shall enact legislation to provide for the grounds on which a member may be recalled and the procedure to be followed.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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@masukuma....
And if the proposed constitution goes through, we still have another avenue incase the parliament decides to sneak in that "legalisation of abortion" we are all fearing.....
Right to petition Parliament 119. (1) Every person has a right to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority, including to enact, amend or repeal any legislation. (2) Parliament shall make provision for the procedure for the exercise of this right.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@Wendz, a nicely crafted carrot Quote: Parliament shall enact legislation to provide for the grounds on which a member may be recalled and the procedure to be followed.
its like saying MPs salaries will be limited by Parliament. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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@Wendz I can bet that the Act Parliament will pass for purposes of 'recall' will be so watered down that it will be virtually impossible to recall MPs. I simply dont trust MPs. The draft should have provided for the grounds themselves and leave out the actual procedure to be set out in an Act of Parliament.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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@Mpenzi and Masukuma
What is the role of parliament? Who makes the laws? We may not love the laws but we have to contend with parliament making the laws because thats the only way we can have laws in Kenya. Who could imagine the same parliament could actually come up with a proposed constitution that allows for impeachment of the President? An Independent Judiciary etc?
So, because this constitution and any other that will come in future will give powers to the parliament to make the relevant laws, how are we gonna handle it or how are we going to pass it? or does it mean we shall never have a constitution? @Masukuma said that on another post, that there is a lee way for parliament to limit the tenure or some commission etc.... Now, this is a "crafted carrot"............ I asked this question again? What do you people want? We cant make laws? PARLIAMENT makes laws it doesnt matter how bad you feel about it.... I keep saying, this constitution will help us sort the rot in the bunch we have now.... hey, you want us with old constitution, then dont complain about them.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/18/2008 Posts: 353
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Am voting yes. If we are to say no until we all agree then lets forget about a new katiba. Ruto and co are against it coz of land. Too much hype about abortion clause and kadhi courts.
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I am voting No
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