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Dropping Swahili as a Subject in Schools.
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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nakubaliana na @Ngalaka, I see no value in teaching kiswahili in school, do the americans even teach their kids english grammar in school ?
teaching it as a subject is just cumbersome, especially considering the same does not have any applications, business and official correspondence is done in english
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,721
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I think the problem is exactly the opposite of what Ngalaka is pointing out here. Many people in Kenya speak Kiswahili as their native language. It may not be their first but it flows more freely in conversations about everyday events. I would argue that Kiswahili is not taught enough so that more knowledge is not assimilated because being taught in English it is perceived as foreign and therefore not relevant to most people.
People live and think and feel in a language. I think it would be more beneficial to bring world knowledge into the language rather than ask people to leave their language so that they can acquire the knowledge. The Japanese and Chinese have brought science and technology into their language they did not learn another language in order to learn science and technology.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Kusadikika wrote:I think the problem is exactly the opposite of what Ngalaka is pointing out here. Many people in Kenya speak Kiswahili as their native language. It may not be their first but it flows more freely in conversations about everyday events. I would argue that Kiswahili is not taught enough so that more knowledge is not assimilated because being taught in English it is perceived as foreign and therefore not relevant to most people.
People live and think and feel in a language. I think it would be more beneficial to bring world knowledge into the language rather than ask people to leave their language so that they can acquire the knowledge. The Japanese and Chinese have brought science and technology into their language they did not learn another language in order to learn science and technology. Are you prescribing more of the same! Do you honestly believe it would serve us well if we were to make Swahili the medium of instruction in our schools - teach science, Maths in Swahili! We have Tz down south for comparative analysis. The very fact that the elite in Tanzania send their kids to Kenyan schools is testament to the realities of that option. Chinese, Japanese are age old languages spoken by people who are themselves innovators with economies at the apex of the pyramid. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Ngalaka, actually the problem of us having bad Kiswahili is not unique to Kiswahili. We have a mix of languages and end up having a bit of each but not fluent in any. Our English is laden with Kiswahili words and conversely our Kiswahili is like English. Si you jua what I'm saying? And no, Kiswahili has ceased being a second language. It is the first language children speak across social classes. Those in deep rural areas are the only ones learning mother tongue first. Infact, I see local African languages dying with the preference by parents for Kiswahili. I do not think there's any harm in learning more of this beautiful language. There's no joy in not knowing
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka, actually the problem of us having bad Kiswahili is not unique to Kiswahili. We have a mix of languages and end up having a bit of each but not fluent in any.
Our English is laden with Kiswahili words and conversely our Kiswahili is like English. Si you jua what I'm saying?
And no, Kiswahili has ceased being a second language. It is the first language children speak across social classes. Those in deep rural areas are the only ones learning mother tongue first. Infact, I see local African languages dying with the preference by parents for Kiswahili.
I do not think there's any harm in learning more of this beautiful language. There's no joy in not knowing have you been to the academies in urban areas, kiswahili is shunned, have you been to the estates around towns, parents only communicate to their kids in the queens language, have you been on wazua, kiswahili posts give people headaches and this is for individuals who scored A's in the same.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka, actually the problem of us having bad Kiswahili is not unique to Kiswahili. We have a mix of languages and end up having a bit of each but not fluent in any.
Our English is laden with Kiswahili words and conversely our Kiswahili is like English. Si you jua what I'm saying?
And no, Kiswahili has ceased being a second language. It is the first language children speak across social classes. Those in deep rural areas are the only ones learning mother tongue first. Infact, I see local African languages dying with the preference by parents for Kiswahili.
I do not think there's any harm in learning more of this beautiful language. There's no joy in not knowing have you been to the academies in urban areas, kiswahili is shunned, have you been to the estates around towns, parents only communicate to their kids in the queens language, have you been on wazua, kiswahili posts give people headaches and this is for individuals who scored A's in the same. so? lets just drop it - right? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Ngalaka wrote:masukuma wrote:Ngalaka wrote:Rahatupu wrote:@Tycho thanks. @Ngalaka have you ever been abroad in non English speaking country? You try communicate in English and they ask you to speak your own language? Been in such scenario in Germany, Italy and Russia. Where is your pride?
Secondly, pride boss.....in our "Africaness" if not anything else. Why not make it the language of instruction for all subjects?
Now I know what Ngugi meant by urging in Decolonizing the Mind by reloading at our African languages. Kiswahili (not Swahili) is at the par with the so called international languages. We have our "own" languages bwana - 42 of them. We speak them better than any other language we learnt in school - be it English or Swahili.Tanzania has taken the route you suggest for us. where has it left them and their education system. The number of Kenyan expatriates there tells it all. speak for yourself... this is such an assumption that is negated by most of my agemates. Would you say in all honesty that, that statement is not a true reflection of an average Kenyan - not some exceptionals who are few and far between. indeed, but the fact of the matter is that more of the kids you are concerned about will be more like you (unlikely to talk their mother tongues) than you (proficient in their mother tongues). All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka, actually the problem of us having bad Kiswahili is not unique to Kiswahili. We have a mix of languages and end up having a bit of each but not fluent in any.
Our English is laden with Kiswahili words and conversely our Kiswahili is like English. Si you jua what I'm saying?
And no, Kiswahili has ceased being a second language. It is the first language children speak across social classes. Those in deep rural areas are the only ones learning mother tongue first. Infact, I see local African languages dying with the preference by parents for Kiswahili.
I do not think there's any harm in learning more of this beautiful language. There's no joy in not knowing have you been to the academies in urban areas, kiswahili is shunned, have you been to the estates around towns, parents only communicate to their kids in the queens language, have you been on wazua, kiswahili posts give people headaches and this is for individuals who scored A's in the same. I have only 1 neighbour whose kid spoke English as first language. The rest speak Kiswahili. Not their mother tongues Now for that 1 child born into Queen's language, she's had to learn Kiswahili. Coz most kids speak Swa.(I obviiusly dont live in Karen/Lavi/Westi...)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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Lolest! wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka, actually the problem of us having bad Kiswahili is not unique to Kiswahili. We have a mix of languages and end up having a bit of each but not fluent in any.
Our English is laden with Kiswahili words and conversely our Kiswahili is like English. Si you jua what I'm saying?
And no, Kiswahili has ceased being a second language. It is the first language children speak across social classes. Those in deep rural areas are the only ones learning mother tongue first. Infact, I see local African languages dying with the preference by parents for Kiswahili.
I do not think there's any harm in learning more of this beautiful language. There's no joy in not knowing have you been to the academies in urban areas, kiswahili is shunned, have you been to the estates around towns, parents only communicate to their kids in the queens language, have you been on wazua, kiswahili posts give people headaches and this is for individuals who scored A's in the same. I have only 1 neighbour whose kid spoke English as first language. The rest speak Kiswahili. Not their mother tongues Now for that 1 child born into Queen's language, she's had to learn Kiswahili. Coz most kids speak Swa.( I obviiusly dont live in Karen/Lavi/Westi...)  its not only those areas, where I live mimi husikia watoto wakiongea in english, a very minimalist form but english, and the schools are very adamant on kids communicating in english.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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masukuma wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka, actually the problem of us having bad Kiswahili is not unique to Kiswahili. We have a mix of languages and end up having a bit of each but not fluent in any.
Our English is laden with Kiswahili words and conversely our Kiswahili is like English. Si you jua what I'm saying?
And no, Kiswahili has ceased being a second language. It is the first language children speak across social classes. Those in deep rural areas are the only ones learning mother tongue first. Infact, I see local African languages dying with the preference by parents for Kiswahili.
I do not think there's any harm in learning more of this beautiful language. There's no joy in not knowing have you been to the academies in urban areas, kiswahili is shunned, have you been to the estates around towns, parents only communicate to their kids in the queens language, have you been on wazua, kiswahili posts give people headaches and this is for individuals who scored A's in the same. so? lets just drop it - right? if the schools do not see the need for it, I would think they are better placed on matters schooling, but in all honesty I don't see the academic benefit of teaching kiswahili, we do not do business or official correspondence in the same, our institutions of higher learning do not publish in kiswahili, if it has to be included then the best we can do is have it as an optional subject, eitherway the way the curriculum is set, its the syntax that is taught, a kid needs to understand the language before the kiswahili teacher comes into the view.
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