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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:tycho wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Whichever way you look at it, revolution is an expression of resistance against the ideal or utopian world. The materials dialectics is the best expression of class struggle. Revolution itself is the creation of utopian world. A key presupposition of revolution is cyclicity. But how is cyclicity significant in politics and history? I think there are sufficient grounds to challenge this idea. For example, how was the idea of cyclicity in politics introduced and, would such a metaphor be apt? The idea of revolution then is an abstract idea created to find solutions to a present that is dissatsfying. It's almost always an oversimplification that things in fact can go back to their beginings, and even, re-write history. Class struggle, is another thing. Do you know that there's 'intra-class struggle'? How does dialectics apply here? Marxist class struggle is not a end in itself. Rather is refined into actionable state capture armed revolutionary struggle by the likes of Lenin, Mao and Castro. The dialectical dimension in intra class struggle is just that a theory. What do you mean when you say something is just a theory? About the actionable states, what has been outstanding about them?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Whichever way you look at it, revolution is an expression of resistance against the ideal or utopian world. The materials dialectics is the best expression of class struggle. Revolution itself is the creation of utopian world. A key presupposition of revolution is cyclicity. But how is cyclicity significant in politics and history? I think there are sufficient grounds to challenge this idea. For example, how was the idea of cyclicity in politics introduced and, would such a metaphor be apt? The idea of revolution then is an abstract idea created to find solutions to a present that is dissatisfying. This is a bit too broad and the point could in fact apply to the way society develops, driven by dissatisfaction with a present situation. Revolution is narrower drive as it is by dissatisfaction with a social system. The cyclicity, harking back to an ideal past or hoping for a utopic future, is mostly imaginary and Marxism is a good case in point. Marx, Engeles, Lenin ably criticized a dissatisfying present but the solution they offered largely ignored the acquisitive nature of human beings. The classless heaven they spoke about has never been observed on Earth and existed only in their fecund imaginations. In those terms, I believe Adam Smith was more of a revolutionary than Marx, even though he never cast himself as such. I also think Adam was some kind of 'revolutionary'. His 'theory of moral sentiment' happens to explore a critical part of society and politics... Right now I'm a bit dazed by H Arendt's 'Human condition' and everything seems to be overturned...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Whichever way you look at it, revolution is an expression of resistance against the ideal or utopian world. The materials dialectics is the best expression of class struggle. Maybe so, may no. Reminds of the joke about the three Jews and existentialism: 1. Marx - it is all about class struggle 2. Freud - no, it is all about struggle with self 3. Einstein - wrong you two, it is all relative Your preference depends on perspective, context and background - and whether you preferred Toivo, or KM hooch in College. @wakanyugi, sounds familiar....KU? Guilty I hear KM has become gentrified now and Toivo became baptized punch. I fear the current generation will never know the genesis of true Marxist activism or the ideological/alcoholic fuel that drove it. So sad. @wakanyugi, we reigned those streets and hovels in the 90s.....nostalgic indeed. About the "revolutionary thought" Dr. Aseka et ali imparted real zeal to "change the world". We're still at it. Changing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Whichever way you look at it, revolution is an expression of resistance against the ideal or utopian world. The materials dialectics is the best expression of class struggle. Maybe so, may no. Reminds of the joke about the three Jews and existentialism: 1. Marx - it is all about class struggle 2. Freud - no, it is all about struggle with self 3. Einstein - wrong you two, it is all relative Your preference depends on perspective, context and background - and whether you preferred Toivo, or KM hooch in College. @wakanyugi, sounds familiar....KU? Guilty I hear KM has become gentrified now and Toivo became baptized punch. I fear the current generation will never know the genesis of true Marxist activism or the ideological/alcoholic fuel that drove it. So sad. @wakanyugi, we reigned those streets and hovels in the 90s.....nostalgic indeed. About the "revolutionary thought" Dr. Aseka et ali imparted real zeal to "change the world". We're still at it. Changing Kumbe you guys are repeating lessons you were taught in school blindly? Did you forget to read or something?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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tycho wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Whichever way you look at it, revolution is an expression of resistance against the ideal or utopian world. The materials dialectics is the best expression of class struggle. Maybe so, may no. Reminds of the joke about the three Jews and existentialism: 1. Marx - it is all about class struggle 2. Freud - no, it is all about struggle with self 3. Einstein - wrong you two, it is all relative Your preference depends on perspective, context and background - and whether you preferred Toivo, or KM hooch in College. @wakanyugi, sounds familiar....KU? Guilty I hear KM has become gentrified now and Toivo became baptized punch. I fear the current generation will never know the genesis of true Marxist activism or the ideological/alcoholic fuel that drove it. So sad. @wakanyugi, we reigned those streets and hovels in the 90s.....nostalgic indeed. About the "revolutionary thought" Dr. Aseka et ali imparted real zeal to "change the world". We're still at it. Changing Kumbe you guys are repeating lessons you were taught in school blindly? Did you forget to read or something? NO. not repeating anything blindly.....just acknowledging the fore they imparted on us. The fore to read the zeal to investigate and above all. CRITICAL THINKING
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Whichever way you look at it, revolution is an expression of resistance against the ideal or utopian world. The materials dialectics is the best expression of class struggle. Maybe so, may no. Reminds of the joke about the three Jews and existentialism: 1. Marx - it is all about class struggle 2. Freud - no, it is all about struggle with self 3. Einstein - wrong you two, it is all relative Your preference depends on perspective, context and background - and whether you preferred Toivo, or KM hooch in College. @wakanyugi, sounds familiar....KU? Guilty I hear KM has become gentrified now and Toivo became baptized punch. I fear the current generation will never know the genesis of true Marxist activism or the ideological/alcoholic fuel that drove it. So sad. @wakanyugi, we reigned those streets and hovels in the 90s.....nostalgic indeed. About the "revolutionary thought" Dr. Aseka et ali imparted real zeal to "change the world". We're still at it. Changing Kumbe you guys are repeating lessons you were taught in school blindly? Quoth Tycho, who clearly has never spent a broke afternoon at KM, aka, 'the school of thought' arguing philosophy and ideology with peers and lecturers alike. There was nothing rote about the likes of Aseka, Ochieng, Bennars, Njoroge, Karanja, Mumbi wa Maina etc. Dissent was not only expected but demanded. Did you know that Ochieng's History lectures sometimes used to be over subscribed due to people from all over KU crashing them? Did also know that KM was an integral part of the KU community and not just because it provided the libations that gave us solace from those tough times between booms? When the the Miss University events were started I recall the dancing competition was once won by a KM girl who had never been to University. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi and rahatupu, in these revolutionary, or even, 'morpholutionary' times, I dare not antagonize you.
You're surely my friends. What I may wish to remind you is that Marx too is fallible. In the quest for nobility of Man-kind and exellence we must spare no one. Not even tycho.
Marx took too much for granted. For example, a classless society sounds too bourgeoise. Individuals must be allowed to excel, and class conflict must be put to perspective.
For the first time in my life I accept my peasant/working class status. How does it sound, when I tell you that it's time for the 'neo- maumau'?
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