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I cannot be both Kenyan and Christian regarding this proposed constitution
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Rahatupu
#61 Posted : Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:12:08 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
@Masukuma, Kadonye, i think you guys are just exposing just how intolerant the Christians seem today in Kenya. I don't profess either of the mainstream religions. @Pundafoolish, will this lot ever see the light?

@2012, what is the problem of even practicing witchcraft, devil or whatever worship is it any different from other forms of "religious rituals" or is it just coz its has been demonised over the decades by our "pacifiers colonialists" who still colonize our minds?

My take: It will make no good having read the whole draft and feeling that a clause or two don't please you so you vote against it. Look at the BIGGER picture, what we have versus what is proposed.
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Wendz
#62 Posted : Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:21:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
The reading of this proposed needs a lot of legal interpretation otherwise, there are many clauses that will not make sense to alot of rural wanjikus who do not know or do not have someone to consult and alot of urban wanjikus who feel too smart to consult.

@Mtu biz

I accept to remain in disagreement with you on some concepts, of course, not everything.
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masukuma
#63 Posted : Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:53:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@Rahatupu, if you think we are intolerant just cross the border to the east and do a feasibility study of putting up one of your so-called not main stream churches. Refusal to Move is not intolerance - asking that we fund (in part) the religious activities of a certain religion and us refusing is not being intolerant.
How come we are TACTFULLY ignoring the plaintiff in this matter?
WILL ISLAM SUFFER IF WE REMOVE THE COURTS FROM OUR CONSTITUTION? WILL THEIR COURTS HAVE NO EFFECT?
@pound,
Quote:
The problem, with churches, was taking sides then invoking the name of the one and same God..
I for once was left wondering which 'God' did they consult cos he gave them different answers.there was a maseno diocess god a mnt kenya god, the methodists said yes, the ACK leaned no...God Forbid!

who did NAMLEF and SUPKEM consult?
Quote:
so please note 'we' are not SPINELESS, 'we' are tactful, 'we' are calculative and 'we' are patient..
'we' just use, and i repeat, use, the radicals at the right time.. like now.
NB. We here stands for non-radicals.
Osama/Taliban/Bithers/Republicans/Democrats(last elections)/ODM/PNU etc all have think tanks that work hard and long on the background and at the right time provoke situations that radicals cant waste..

i see that 'you' are think you are very clever/cunning too!
Quote:
Do you think it is by sheer ignorance/arrogance or duress that the so contentious Abortion clauses and subclauses survived all amendments.

its all tact! they are a committee of experts! no ignorance - they know what they are opening up.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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2012
#64 Posted : Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:10:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Rahatupu wrote:
@2012, what is the problem of even practicing witchcraft, devil or whatever worship is it any different from other forms of "religious rituals" or is it just coz its has been demonised over the decades by our "pacifiers colonialists" who still colonize our minds?


God will reveal himself to you one day.

BBI will solve it :)
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poundfoolish
#65 Posted : Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:38:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
At Masukuma...

your point on Namlef and SUPKEM is moot... where is proof SUPKEM supported PNU?
And when you are arguing please avoid drawing in other irrelevancies.
So does it mean the churches took different sides because NAMLEF went ODM and SUPKEM was PNU?

It is rather obvious the church leadership, has been drawn to a sideshow (a vague abortion clause and the Kadhis courts) while the real morality issues are neatly hidden everywhere else..
surprisingly the clergy hasnt seen this and are just singing Kadhis and Abortion.. pity.
and yes 'we' are very clever and cunning.. no denial in that.
everything will become clear as the months progress and all that will be left of uncalculative radicals, is to jump in and say "You see, that too in in there(draft)"
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masukuma
#66 Posted : Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:37:20 AM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@pound, not that 'you' are clever its that 'you' think you are clever - those two are totally different.
proof?
http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=46217
http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=44842

the Church did not take sides because the Muslims took sides. read my previous post.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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kadonye
#67 Posted : Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:39:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Rahatupu wrote:
@Masukuma, Kadonye, i think you guys are just exposing just how intolerant the Christians seem today in Kenya. I don't profess either of the mainstream religions. @Pundafoolish, will this lot ever see the light?

weee!!!ni sehemu gani ya maoni yangu inaashiria hivyo? I think the church is the only group that has been consistent on the katiba since 2003.They've wanted kadhis courts out, no gay union recognition n no abortion.Compare this with Raila n Kibaki's men.In the Moi days every1 was pushing for a hybrid system.After NARC came to pwr, Raila pushed 4 an executive premier with a ceremonial president elected by the public.Kibaki wanted a strong President wi th a PM who was just a little better than Leadr of Gvt biz in Parlt.Later kibaki changes to pure presidential Raila sticks with parliamentary.A lot of water has pasd under the bridge coz they now agree.There has been an inclusion in the current draft of offensive issues which were not in 2005 draft thus uniting the church further
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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poundfoolish
#68 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:40:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
@Masukuma.
Id also googled/binged those articles before i responded..
There is no where SUPKEM ever did say they throw their weight behind PNU. we only had Taib trying to cajole some of its members.
Had you even ever heard of NAMLEF before 2007. It was formed after NARC came to power in 2003.

anyway keep on with the Anti-abortion crusade, it has had the clergy getting laughed at, right in their face.

But my main point was, is, and still will be, if the clergy just dug the draft beyond the Kadhis and Abortion; they will realise
1. the Moslem and Kadhis courts are not even their biggest threat, but rather a strategic ally as we move into the future.
2. there is more than abortion in this draft... its all manner of New World Order influence neatly being sneaked in.
3. Non of the politicians got what he wanted with this draft so it would be better for them it didnt pass.


have a lovely day
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masukuma
#69 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:37:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
just some excerpts from the noted document
Quote:

The Coast Province Chairman of SUPKEM, Sheikh Juma Ngao and former Mombasa Mayor Taib Ali Taib urged the Muslim community to ignore the lies and propaganda peddled by the opposition and rally behind President Kibaki as he cared for their welfare.
....
SUPKEM is now disowning the organization and accusing its officials of misleading the Muslims society.

The Muslim Teachers Association Secretary General, Sheikh Hassan Kinyua now says Muslims have their political rights as individuals to vote for the candidate of their choice.

The Nubian community which largely resides in Lang'ata constituency however seems to have taken a political stand which they say has been influenced by their Member of Parliament, Raila Odinga.

The association further advised their fellow Muslims to vote wisely considering the government's development record.


moving on, i have said and i will say it again, this is not a popularity contest. whether the clergy gets laughed at is neither here nor there. their consciences are stronger than your laughter. even Jesus was mocked, was traded for a known thug call Barbabas. Even Jesus was nailed by guyz who he fed, healed and raised their dead. He assured his disciples that the same world will hate them, mock them as they did him. (actually the church would know it is on the way of its master when it faces opposition) My point is, the church is not stupid. it know politicians (your Barbabases) , but it will not comply just because many of you want it to comply. We will REMIND you.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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