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Cytonn Investments
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,703
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Habari ndiyo hiyo. Cytonn acquires Sh1bn stake in Superior Homes ahead of NSE listingI just hope Ian Henderson will not be crying in the toilet in a few years. If he got cold hard cash then he may be safe but if all he got was shares he needs to be very careful. Superior homes have been in existence for over 10 years and have a beautiful development which everyone can see. They are worth 4 billion shillings. Cytonn has been in existence for less than 5 years. They claim to have 74 billion shillings worth of assets under management. I am not very sophisticated at these mathematics so forgive me if I am a little skeptical.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 834 Location: nairobi
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The current rates are:
• 1 month: 12% p.a
• 3 months: 15% p.a
• 6 months: 16% p.a
• 9 months: 17% p.a
• 12 months: 18% p.a
Returns on Cash management solution
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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http://www.the-star.co.k...ts-tell-cytonn_c1500792
Quote:Don’t crowd Karen with villa project, residents tell Cytonn
Karen residents have petitioned the Nairobi government and Nema to stop Cytonn Investments Management from putting up villas on the estate.
The proposed Situ Village would include cottages, serviced villas, a shopping centre, clinic, nursery school and recreational and conference centre on 29 acres.
The residents, thorough the Karen-Lang’ata District Association, want Cytonn to halt the construction, saying only one house is allowed per acre in the area.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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heri wrote:The current rates are:
• 1 month: 12% p.a
• 3 months: 15% p.a
• 6 months: 16% p.a
• 9 months: 17% p.a
• 12 months: 18% p.a
Returns on Cash management solution Minimum investment Ksh 1M. Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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kaka2za wrote:heri wrote:The current rates are:
• 1 month: 12% p.a
• 3 months: 15% p.a
• 6 months: 16% p.a
• 9 months: 17% p.a
• 12 months: 18% p.a
Returns on Cash management solution Minimum investment Ksh 1M. What are they investing in to guarantee such high returns? 18%pa? Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. I agree with both @Mainat and @Horton points. @Mainat's point: people just look at 18% as a number (as in bigger than 10%) with no application of risk. Risk is commensurately higher, and compared to Treasury Bond, much much higher. Chase Bank reminded the rate-chasers of that. @Horton's point: what the money is being used for is stated and visible. No one forces investor to put in the money. Do your homework, quantify your risk profile then move ahead.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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hardwood wrote:http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/02/06/dont-crowd-karen-with-villa-project-residents-tell-cytonn_c1500792 Quote:Don’t crowd Karen with villa project, residents tell Cytonn
Karen residents have petitioned the Nairobi government and Nema to stop Cytonn Investments Management from putting up villas on the estate.
The proposed Situ Village would include cottages, serviced villas, a shopping centre, clinic, nursery school and recreational and conference centre on 29 acres.
The residents, thorough the Karen-Lang’ata District Association, want Cytonn to halt the construction, saying only one house is allowed per acre in the area. Quote:The residents, thorough the Karen-Lang’ata District Association, want Cytonn to halt the construction, saying only one house is allowed per acre in the area.
Cytonn wants to put up 50 serviced villas and 15 cottages. Each villa will be put up on half-an-acre.
The company will also put up a swimming pool, clubhouse, playground, tennis court and a community conference centre. Cytonn also wants to put up a borehole and biodigesters, as well as open spaces and a utility plant. The residents say the land was initially classified as agricultural property, but was changed to mixed use purposes after Cytonn’s application.
They have questioned how the change of user was granted. Residents accused Cytonn of bribing the organisations.
Cytonn said it obtained the approvals legally from the Nairobi government, Nema and the Water Resources Management Authority.
On Saturday, Cytonn chief investments officer Elizabeth Nkukuu said, “In line with one of our key values of integrity, we adhere to and respect the rule of law.” Nema said the project will only have “minimal” effects on the environment. Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy. And I have spoken much without shedding any light....🤦🏽♂️ So Madoff, my learned friend was the Chairman of the Nasdaq and had alot of clout within the investing regime. Cytonn has none! Your argument here is absurd! You are "skeptical" because of how they came onto the scene? Alot of us came into this world kicking and screaming too 😁😁 How is this a basis of skepticism? There are alot of sharp guys in the market, however, customer service in Kenya is atrocious. Which is why, investors like myself like buying their properties, The Alma is doing well in terms of schedule. I get my interest every month without fail for over a year reliably. I can see from their projects that they are making good use of my money. The cynics about this great company have drastically reduced as they can see product delivery. And As my good friend swenani says.....no one forcing you to invest with them, kama hutaki....move on.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Horton wrote:quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy. And I have spoken much without shedding any light....🤦🏽♂️ So Madoff, my learned friend was the Chairman of the Nasdaq and had alot of clout within the investing regime. Cytonn has none! Your argument here is absurd! You are "skeptical" because of how they came onto the scene? Alot of us came into this world kicking and screaming too 😁😁 How is this a basis of skepticism? There are alot of sharp guys in the market, however, customer service in Kenya is atrocious. Which is why, investors like myself like buying their properties, The Alma is doing well in terms of schedule. I get my interest every month without fail for over a year reliably. I can see from their projects that they are making good use of my money. The cynics about this great company have drastically reduced as they can see product delivery. And As my good friend swenani says.....no one forcing you to invest with them, kama hutaki....move on. And rightly so...as is my choice....if there was a quorum of people investing with them may be I might be inclined to change my opinion...right now its just you shilling for them, using the tried confidence take-it-or-leave-it method popular with scam artists....I have seen all manner of snake oil sales men...if there any substance to them, it will show in a few years....or it will crash and burn and take fools' millions with it. Time will tell.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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@Horton, i think you attitude is needless arrogant. Was actually advising potential investors and gossipers to alike to drive out and see the Amari ridge or even the Ruaka flat projects to convince themselves that Cytonn are no different from Centum only probably better run. @quicksand-no need to believe gossip, go check their projects. Cytonn pays 10% to banks and then takes 50% to its real estate projects quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy. And I have spoken much without shedding any light....🤦🏽♂️ So Madoff, my learned friend was the Chairman of the Nasdaq and had alot of clout within the investing regime. Cytonn has none! Your argument here is absurd! You are "skeptical" because of how they came onto the scene? Alot of us came into this world kicking and screaming too 😁😁 How is this a basis of skepticism? There are alot of sharp guys in the market, however, customer service in Kenya is atrocious. Which is why, investors like myself like buying their properties, The Alma is doing well in terms of schedule. I get my interest every month without fail for over a year reliably. I can see from their projects that they are making good use of my money. The cynics about this great company have drastically reduced as they can see product delivery. And As my good friend swenani says.....no one forcing you to invest with them, kama hutaki....move on. And rightly so...as is my choice....if there was a quorum of people investing with them may be I might be inclined to change my opinion...right now its just you shilling for them, using the tried confidence take-it-or-leave-it method popular with scam artists....I have seen all manner of snake oil sales men...if there any substance to them, it will show in a few years....or it will crash and burn and take fools' millions with it. Time will tell. Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Mainat wrote:@Horton, i think you attitude is needless arrogant. Was actually advising potential investors and gossipers to alike to drive out and see the Amari ridge or even the Ruaka flat projects to convince themselves that Cytonn are no different from Centum only probably better run. @quicksand-no need to believe gossip, go check their projects. Cytonn pays 10% to banks and then takes 50% to its real estate projects quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy. And I have spoken much without shedding any light....🤦🏽♂️ So Madoff, my learned friend was the Chairman of the Nasdaq and had alot of clout within the investing regime. Cytonn has none! Your argument here is absurd! You are "skeptical" because of how they came onto the scene? Alot of us came into this world kicking and screaming too 😁😁 How is this a basis of skepticism? There are alot of sharp guys in the market, however, customer service in Kenya is atrocious. Which is why, investors like myself like buying their properties, The Alma is doing well in terms of schedule. I get my interest every month without fail for over a year reliably. I can see from their projects that they are making good use of my money. The cynics about this great company have drastically reduced as they can see product delivery. And As my good friend swenani says.....no one forcing you to invest with them, kama hutaki....move on. And rightly so...as is my choice....if there was a quorum of people investing with them may be I might be inclined to change my opinion...right now its just you shilling for them, using the tried confidence take-it-or-leave-it method popular with scam artists....I have seen all manner of snake oil sales men...if there any substance to them, it will show in a few years....or it will crash and burn and take fools' millions with it. Time will tell. @Mainat, thanks for your wise words. In my post to you, what do u find arrogant that u felt u need to justify your position? As for quicksand, your queries have been answered severally on this thread. One needs to just go back and search.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/31/2007 Posts: 303
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quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy. This thing stinks..if you are not an insider just keep off.No point in losing your life savings just because you want an average return on your investment.The risks far outweigh the returns.The fact that they are relying on CMS to fund their projects, instead of structured long term financing from reputable financial institutions, and the fact that their rates are still those of the pre-interest capping days raises alot of red flags.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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moneydust wrote:quicksand wrote:Horton wrote:Mainat wrote:Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? They have a spread of how they invest. Mainly real estate and CPs. CEO has admitted making a minimum of 25% to be able to pay the 18% I have visited Alma. Whats ur question here? This is a serious outfit run by professionals. Something that this economy has been lacking. You have spoken much with shedding any light on anything. You will forgive our skepticism, but some of us remember Cytonn landed on the scene and a bare knuckle fight with Britam ensued, with the latter accusing the former of playing fast and loose with their accounts. We might never know the truth after the closed boardroom horse trading but huge, red asterisks will follow these fellows and their dealings wherever they go as far as I am concerned. Madoff anyone? He ran a ponzi scheme right under the noses of the SEC for 20 years. Kwani what is this singularity of investing genius that Cytonn is uniquely blessed with that makes them see opportunities all other business people have missed? The economy is not quantum physics...a fair chunk of sharp people should be able to read it correctly, and if sense says such returns smell fishy given the prevailing environment, they probably are fishy. This thing stinks..if you are not an insider just keep off.No point in losing your life savings just because you want an average return on your investment.The risks far outweigh the returns.The fact that they are relying on CMS to fund their projects, instead of structured long term financing from reputable financial institutions, and the fact that their rates are still those of the pre-interest capping days raises alot of red flags. Yes you should keep clear!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/7/2014 Posts: 40
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moneydust wrote:quicksand wrote:[quote=Horton][quote=Mainat]Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? This thing stinks..if you are not an insider just keep off.No point in losing your life savings just because you want an average return on your investment.The risks far outweigh the returns. The fact that they are relying on CMS to fund their projects, instead of structured long term financing from reputable financial institutions, and the fact that their rates are still those of the pre-interest capping days raises alot of red flags. Good point on the funding. I think that is the biggest risk here. They are funding long term projects with short term (max 1 yr) money. If deposits continue to grow then they are fine and will deliver. However, if CMS deposits are redeemed en masse, while cash is tied up in long term projects, then they would be in a serious cash crunch.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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KenyanEconomist wrote:moneydust wrote:quicksand wrote:[quote=Horton][quote=Mainat]Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? This thing stinks..if you are not an insider just keep off.No point in losing your life savings just because you want an average return on your investment.The risks far outweigh the returns. The fact that they are relying on CMS to fund their projects, instead of structured long term financing from reputable financial institutions, and the fact that their rates are still those of the pre-interest capping days raises alot of red flags. Good point on the funding. I think that is the biggest risk here. They are funding long term projects with short term (max 1 yr) money. If deposits continue to grow then they are fine and will deliver. However, if CMS deposits are redeemed en masse, while cash is tied up in long term projects, then they would be in a serious cash crunch. Ok so Taaleri usually fund the real estate projects. CMS is a way of diversifying their financing options limited to a maximum of 25%. So no, they are not technically relying entirely on CMS to fund projects. So the CMS is by no means their primary source of funds. If you had done your homework, then u should know that they also fund their projects thru a Commercial Paper known as Cytonn Project Notes which actually pays higher interest than CMS. Also understand that CMS products have a corporate guarantee which attach assets (The Ridge, Alma etc) of the company to act as guarantees. CMS funding is quite minute in the grand scheme of things. But it is a good way of funding too for the company, getting a loan from a bank is a tedious process. Again, I reiterate what I have experienced, if you have any questions like I did, I sent an email with my queries and was adequately answered. I am satisfied that they are an honest company full of ambitious young men and women who want to make a name for themselves. I have been in the real estate business for a long time having been disappointed severally by developers that offer u the world but as project continues, you are told "oh swimming pool cant be installed" oh u will only get one parking for visitors and the apartment to share" oh we are late by 3montha which turns out to be 2years" I visited the Alma and the work is impressive.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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@kenyaneconomist - kwani which economics do you do? This is the banking model...they borrow short from you and other rich depositors and lend long KenyanEconomist wrote:moneydust wrote:quicksand wrote:[quote=Horton][quote=Mainat]Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? This thing stinks..if you are not an insider just keep off.No point in losing your life savings just because you want an average return on your investment.The risks far outweigh the returns. The fact that they are relying on CMS to fund their projects, instead of structured long term financing from reputable financial institutions, and the fact that their rates are still those of the pre-interest capping days raises alot of red flags. Good point on the funding. I think that is the biggest risk here. They are funding long term projects with short term (max 1 yr) money. If deposits continue to grow then they are fine and will deliver. However, if CMS deposits are redeemed en masse, while cash is tied up in long term projects, then they would be in a serious cash crunch. Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/7/2014 Posts: 40
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Mainat wrote:@kenyaneconomist - kwani which economics do you do? This is the banking model...they borrow short from you and other rich depositors and lend long KenyanEconomist wrote:moneydust wrote:quicksand wrote:[quote=Horton][quote=Mainat]Not defending Cytonn, but how many understand how they are able to offer their rates profitably? How many have visited Amara Ridge or even the Ruaka project? This thing stinks..if you are not an insider just keep off.No point in losing your life savings just because you want an average return on your investment.The risks far outweigh the returns. The fact that they are relying on CMS to fund their projects, instead of structured long term financing from reputable financial institutions, and the fact that their rates are still those of the pre-interest capping days raises alot of red flags. Good point on the funding. I think that is the biggest risk here. They are funding long term projects with short term (max 1 yr) money. If deposits continue to grow then they are fine and will deliver. However, if CMS deposits are redeemed en masse, while cash is tied up in long term projects, then they would be in a serious cash crunch. @Mainat, isn't that why banks are regulated by CBK? (Cytonn is not regulated). And isn't that why Banks are well capitalized? (Cytonn investors have only put max 48m of cash into the business for an asset base of 11bn as at Oct 2016, if you ignore unrealized fair value gains). Most banks also have more of voluntary deposits, that are not chasing high interest yields like Fixed Deposit or CMS investors...
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