Wazua
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Treasury Bills and Bonds
Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Ebenyo wrote:maka wrote:Ebenyo wrote:maka wrote:This months bond auction cancelled... what happened? i called cbk this evening and was told to come tomorrow. Guess bids were high...14-15 levels...too expensive for gava to lend at those rates.They arent thaaaaaat desperate for cash. so mpaka next month tena? Yes Sir... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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maka wrote:Ebenyo wrote:maka wrote:This months bond auction cancelled... what happened? i called cbk this evening and was told to come tomorrow. Guess bids were high...14-15 levels...too expensive for gava to lend at those rates.They arent thaaaaaat desperate for cash. Not that desperate..... Ohoho wait and see in the next month or so. Fruits of wastage  In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:Ebenyo wrote:maka wrote:This months bond auction cancelled... what happened? i called cbk this evening and was told to come tomorrow. Guess bids were high...14-15 levels...too expensive for gava to lend at those rates.They arent thaaaaaat desperate for cash. Not that desperate..... Ohoho wait and see in the next month or so. Fruits of wastage We will just do another eurobond... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:Taurrus wrote:[quote=Ryko]this calculation looks great.
Someone kindly share with me a link or a guide on how i can apply for the above bond(the procedure), can it be done online or i must go to Central Bank.Got some idle cash and this looks worth https://www.centralbank.go.ke/securities/[/quote] Thanks Taurrus, i appreciate tomorrow heading to the CBK to make my application. I have been in the money market wave looks gloomy i am switching to Bonds. I have one final question, if anyone would mind explaining i will appreciate. Scenario: Assuming i apply for a 3M Bond (5 years) after 4 years i wish to get all my money back. Will i loose any intrest?? what do i stand to loose if i redeem halfway?. I sincerely did not understand the secondary market bit. The one year you held the bond you will receive interest payment semi annually...when you want to sell it you do so at the secondary market where yields are determined by the current interest rate environment...plus its a negotiation between different dealers in the market..3M will be considered an odd lot and you might be nyolewad quite a bit on selling. @Maka 5 years is damn looonngg, i might just land a Nairobian "wow-man" and in 11 months she might tell me she has my triplets yet nilizika saving ya 3M  1. There are bonds i see written 20 years but redeemable every 5 years, does it mean i can invest in that and get all my cash out after 5 years without the secondary stuff? 2. For any experienced Wazuan: I have noted once you bids for the bond you have to waits for results. (a rough calculation if you bid for 3M what is the likely amount CBK can accept? ). Just a rough estimate Finally, I think the 2 years option is the best so far, 5 years is for cash that one will never need. Its best to assume that cash disappeared. Secondary market is a "No" go zone. With this precaution in my head i think i dip my legs in. If you want you can buy the bond leo and sell it kesho...i have traded the 30 year bond numerous times so you dont hv to necessarily hold it for a few months or years as long as you get a proper exit you offload... Do you need to own quite a chunk of "EVEN" odd in the region of 100M (Kabura) in order to avoid the heavy kinyozi while trading the 30 YR Bond? I doubt if a 3M guy can trade a 30 year Bond and come out smiling the following day. you can i have done it a couple of times...look at last weeks price list (not mine) but there was an SDB that was bought at 16%...Seller must have been desperate remembered he had a bond sold it at whatever rate the broker gave him/her... @Tisha, is that 16% of the capital ? i.e 16% of say 3M = 480,000?  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:Taurrus wrote:[quote=Ryko]this calculation looks great.
Someone kindly share with me a link or a guide on how i can apply for the above bond(the procedure), can it be done online or i must go to Central Bank.Got some idle cash and this looks worth https://www.centralbank.go.ke/securities/[/quote] Thanks Taurrus, i appreciate tomorrow heading to the CBK to make my application. I have been in the money market wave looks gloomy i am switching to Bonds. I have one final question, if anyone would mind explaining i will appreciate. Scenario: Assuming i apply for a 3M Bond (5 years) after 4 years i wish to get all my money back. Will i loose any intrest?? what do i stand to loose if i redeem halfway?. I sincerely did not understand the secondary market bit. The one year you held the bond you will receive interest payment semi annually...when you want to sell it you do so at the secondary market where yields are determined by the current interest rate environment...plus its a negotiation between different dealers in the market..3M will be considered an odd lot and you might be nyolewad quite a bit on selling. @Maka 5 years is damn looonngg, i might just land a Nairobian "wow-man" and in 11 months she might tell me she has my triplets yet nilizika saving ya 3M 1. There are bonds i see written 20 years but redeemable every 5 years, does it mean i can invest in that and get all my cash out after 5 years without the secondary stuff? 2. For any experienced Wazuan: I have noted once you bids for the bond you have to waits for results. (a rough calculation if you bid for 3M what is the likely amount CBK can accept? ). Just a rough estimate Finally, I think the 2 years option is the best so far, 5 years is for cash that one will never need. Its best to assume that cash disappeared. Secondary market is a "No" go zone. With this precaution in my head i think i dip my legs in. If you want you can buy the bond leo and sell it kesho...i have traded the 30 year bond numerous times so you dont hv to necessarily hold it for a few months or years as long as you get a proper exit you offload... Do you need to own quite a chunk of "EVEN" odd in the region of 100M (Kabura) in order to avoid the heavy kinyozi while trading the 30 YR Bond? I doubt if a 3M guy can trade a 30 year Bond and come out smiling the following day. you can i have done it a couple of times...look at last weeks price list (not mine) but there was an SDB that was bought at 16%...Seller must have been desperate remembered he had a bond sold it at whatever rate the broker gave him/her... @Tisha, is that 16% of the capital ? i.e 16% of say 3M = 480,000? Wewe sasa...even sent you the calcs anyway look at this 2 scenarios; You bought the 30 year @ 14.8% today then sold it at 14.3% on 15th....5 days before coupon payment... @14.8% @14.3% possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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maka wrote:Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). 14%+ else no one will buy this. Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 257
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maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:Taurrus wrote:[quote=Ryko]this calculation looks great.
Someone kindly share with me a link or a guide on how i can apply for the above bond(the procedure), can it be done online or i must go to Central Bank.Got some idle cash and this looks worth https://www.centralbank.go.ke/securities/[/quote] Thanks Taurrus, i appreciate tomorrow heading to the CBK to make my application. I have been in the money market wave looks gloomy i am switching to Bonds. I have one final question, if anyone would mind explaining i will appreciate. Scenario: Assuming i apply for a 3M Bond (5 years) after 4 years i wish to get all my money back. Will i loose any intrest?? what do i stand to loose if i redeem halfway?. I sincerely did not understand the secondary market bit. The one year you held the bond you will receive interest payment semi annually...when you want to sell it you do so at the secondary market where yields are determined by the current interest rate environment...plus its a negotiation between different dealers in the market..3M will be considered an odd lot and you might be nyolewad quite a bit on selling. @Maka 5 years is damn looonngg, i might just land a Nairobian "wow-man" and in 11 months she might tell me she has my triplets yet nilizika saving ya 3M 1. There are bonds i see written 20 years but redeemable every 5 years, does it mean i can invest in that and get all my cash out after 5 years without the secondary stuff? 2. For any experienced Wazuan: I have noted once you bids for the bond you have to waits for results. (a rough calculation if you bid for 3M what is the likely amount CBK can accept? ). Just a rough estimate Finally, I think the 2 years option is the best so far, 5 years is for cash that one will never need. Its best to assume that cash disappeared. Secondary market is a "No" go zone. With this precaution in my head i think i dip my legs in. If you want you can buy the bond leo and sell it kesho...i have traded the 30 year bond numerous times so you dont hv to necessarily hold it for a few months or years as long as you get a proper exit you offload... Do you need to own quite a chunk of "EVEN" odd in the region of 100M (Kabura) in order to avoid the heavy kinyozi while trading the 30 YR Bond? I doubt if a 3M guy can trade a 30 year Bond and come out smiling the following day. you can i have done it a couple of times...look at last weeks price list (not mine) but there was an SDB that was bought at 16%...Seller must have been desperate remembered he had a bond sold it at whatever rate the broker gave him/her... @Tisha, is that 16% of the capital ? i.e 16% of say 3M = 480,000? Wewe sasa...even sent you the calcs anyway look at this 2 scenarios; You bought the 30 year @ 14.8% today then sold it at 14.3% on 15th....5 days before coupon payment... @14.8%@14.3% @maka could you share the spreadsheet you used to do these calculations? Tafadhali...
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 257
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KulaRaha wrote:maka wrote:Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). 14%+ else no one will buy this. The way they have been rejecting bids, 14% seems high. Perhaps 13%...anyway, we will see what happens
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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snipermnoma wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Impunity wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:maka wrote:Ryko wrote:Taurrus wrote:[quote=Ryko]this calculation looks great.
Someone kindly share with me a link or a guide on how i can apply for the above bond(the procedure), can it be done online or i must go to Central Bank.Got some idle cash and this looks worth https://www.centralbank.go.ke/securities/[/quote] Thanks Taurrus, i appreciate tomorrow heading to the CBK to make my application. I have been in the money market wave looks gloomy i am switching to Bonds. I have one final question, if anyone would mind explaining i will appreciate. Scenario: Assuming i apply for a 3M Bond (5 years) after 4 years i wish to get all my money back. Will i loose any intrest?? what do i stand to loose if i redeem halfway?. I sincerely did not understand the secondary market bit. The one year you held the bond you will receive interest payment semi annually...when you want to sell it you do so at the secondary market where yields are determined by the current interest rate environment...plus its a negotiation between different dealers in the market..3M will be considered an odd lot and you might be nyolewad quite a bit on selling. @Maka 5 years is damn looonngg, i might just land a Nairobian "wow-man" and in 11 months she might tell me she has my triplets yet nilizika saving ya 3M 1. There are bonds i see written 20 years but redeemable every 5 years, does it mean i can invest in that and get all my cash out after 5 years without the secondary stuff? 2. For any experienced Wazuan: I have noted once you bids for the bond you have to waits for results. (a rough calculation if you bid for 3M what is the likely amount CBK can accept? ). Just a rough estimate Finally, I think the 2 years option is the best so far, 5 years is for cash that one will never need. Its best to assume that cash disappeared. Secondary market is a "No" go zone. With this precaution in my head i think i dip my legs in. If you want you can buy the bond leo and sell it kesho...i have traded the 30 year bond numerous times so you dont hv to necessarily hold it for a few months or years as long as you get a proper exit you offload... Do you need to own quite a chunk of "EVEN" odd in the region of 100M (Kabura) in order to avoid the heavy kinyozi while trading the 30 YR Bond? I doubt if a 3M guy can trade a 30 year Bond and come out smiling the following day. you can i have done it a couple of times...look at last weeks price list (not mine) but there was an SDB that was bought at 16%...Seller must have been desperate remembered he had a bond sold it at whatever rate the broker gave him/her... @Tisha, is that 16% of the capital ? i.e 16% of say 3M = 480,000? Wewe sasa...even sent you the calcs anyway look at this 2 scenarios; You bought the 30 year @ 14.8% today then sold it at 14.3% on 15th....5 days before coupon payment... @14.8%@14.3% @maka could you share the spreadsheet you used to do these calculations? Tafadhali... Wekelea email I send you... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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maka wrote:
Wekelea email I send you...
wazua@googlegroups.comPesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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KulaRaha wrote:maka wrote:Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). 14%+ else no one will buy this.
CBK will only accept anything below CBR +4%....if everyone quotes 14% and above they might cancel the whole bond.
This one is IFB ....so coupon rate grossed up is 13.9% (10% tax rate) and 14.7% ( 15% tax rate)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Liv wrote:KulaRaha wrote:maka wrote:Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). 14%+ else no one will buy this.
CBK will only accept anything below CBR +4%....if everyone quotes 14% and above they might cancel the whole bond.
This one is IFB ....so coupon rate grossed up is 13.9% (10% tax rate) and 14.7% ( 15% tax rate) Let them cancel. They cancelled the last one too. At some stage, they'll come begging... Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 257
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 700 Location: Nairobi
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KulaRaha wrote:maka wrote:Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). 14%+ else no one will buy this. Kenyans always looking for super normal profits. Are we just punishing the government for leakages and spending inefficiencies? “We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Sent... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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Not received Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Hiyo yenu ya groups imekataa...ambia sniper awatumie...amepata yeye. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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KulaRaha wrote:Liv wrote:KulaRaha wrote:maka wrote:Issuing IFB1/2017/12Yr. Coupon 12.50%. Settlement 27-Feb-17. Maturity Date 12-Feb-29. Amortised payments: 21-Feb-22 (20%), 19-Feb-24 (45%) & 12-Feb-29 (100%). 14%+ else no one will buy this.
CBK will only accept anything below CBR +4%....if everyone quotes 14% and above they might cancel the whole bond.
This one is IFB ....so coupon rate grossed up is 13.9% (10% tax rate) and 14.7% ( 15% tax rate) Let them cancel. They cancelled the last one too. At some stage, they'll come begging...
You can't win against a government ...sorry.
Didn't you note most of the funds rejected in the cancelled bond ended up in the Treasury bills? Bids for 182 and 364 days totaled 23 billion this week and CBK took 21b of these.....at flat interest rates.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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Guys:
I have question:
Has any of you played around with layered (laddered?) buys/bids of Tbills?
Been toying with the idea as a method to catch rising rates since I missed the huge run-ups we had a couple of years back-cuz money was tied up in a 364-day T-bill.
The way it would work if I had ~600K and wanted to bid on an 182-day bill:
I would bid 100K each month, for six months-continuously. I would then have some chums every month in a cyclic manner so that I am ready to jump into better rates if and when they come up instead of tying up my whole 600K in a single 182-day bid.
Could also work with 91-day bills. Heck, I suppose one could bid every week there was an auction throughout the year....
Thoughts?
TIA.
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