wazua Mon, Jan 13, 2025
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

151 Pages«<8990919293>»
Law Capping interest rates
Ngalaka
#1801 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 4:01:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..

IMF advised us as a responsible friend would.
It's not like they are dictating to us.

Lakini, kama sisi ni ya kufa, hata dawa hatutasikia
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
MaichBlack
#1802 Posted: : Friday, January 27, 2017 4:13:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..

Yes sovereign state - since Moi's days. I remember that was his popular phrase to explain away everything!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
KenyanEconomist
#1803 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 4:28:56 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 40
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!
tom_boy
#1804 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 6:57:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
KenyanEconomist
#1805 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 8:06:27 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/7/2014
Posts: 40
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term.

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters"

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
winmak
#1806 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 9:15:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/1/2007
Posts: 539
Location: Nakuru
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term.

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters"

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.


Good summary Economist
For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases ~ WB
muandiwambeu
#1807 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2017 10:18:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
winmak wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)
better no credit at all than led to a thief. This is the precedence behind high prevalence of thieving, complacence and coraption in Kenya. Unsecured loans was the highway to defrauding the banks. Kwani, utado nini nisipolipa culture has to be brought to a stop, to unlock lending to entrepreneurs.(Moving money from bank A to B and then C does create no value.) And then, no CBR to reference with. That was shxt Kenyans will look back to and wonder how stupid were these lenders as well as policymakers.

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth. Of course,this for sure will sober up prudent banking and thus enabling real economic lending that will spur growth in Kenya.

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. And its well known that manipulation of interest rates is a awful open market monetary operation technique with side effects equivalent to nuke attack. Affecting even the undesired targets and waywire fallback. A tool only used by government to rob the society for failure to adhere to prudent economic practices our government has seen that and has taken a decisive measure to bring that to soberity and heighten the sensititivity it deserved. . Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES (why defend KES in the first place? You can not defend what you already maligned and butchered at the alter of immoral profits, corporate drunken stupor et al by few thieving and conniving lazy blood sucking leaches) at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term. Fallacy of the highest order, caps are here in the first place because your counter offer was misused, free market. Now every dick, tom and harry knows well there was nothing like free market. All players ganged up to gag up the economically sensible borrower. Why give a gun to someone so eager to shoot you through the pupil of your eye and then turn it on self? Recklessness. Could someone atleast prove to be in control and of the right mind and capacity to handle no caps before arguing about free markets. Caps are our own medicine, prescribed by us to us. we can prescribe what works any day and time if need be including no caps only if it had not failed us so terribly..

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters" thank very much. CBK has a plethora of tools to use to establish an effective fiscal monetary policy that is effective and efficient and should desist amputing our patient simply because they were lazy to manage a single sore finger. We respect our colonial masters, the advice is good but its too late because the patient is at alittle bit different level of diagnosing. Thank you very much.

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
I suggest cbk to continue pursuing a low interest regime to normalise the already overburden smes and entrepreneurs to encourage establishment, growth and contain sparodic sprouting of smes et al thus thwarting unfair competition/ over competition that has made credit almost unaccessible to Kenyans.



Good summary Economist


I miss the days of Barclay's bank, kuja bila chochote. The economy was growing under the able hands of men and women who knew the essence of optimal capital structuring, sio kila kitu loan. Men of vision who earnestly worked to create real economic growth that translated to higher purchasing power and standards of living. Loan ilikuwa kwa mpango, sio kampango Ka kendo, and then you end up with several tumpangos twa upuzi very many orphaned/ npls and bank closures.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
tom_boy
#1808 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 7:56:23 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
muandiwambeu wrote:
winmak wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)
better no credit at all than led to a thief. This is the precedence behind high prevalence of thieving, complacence and coraption in Kenya. Unsecured loans was the highway to defrauding the banks. Kwani, utado nini nisipolipa culture has to be brought to a stop, to unlock lending to entrepreneurs.(Moving money from bank A to B and then C does create no value.) And then, no CBR to reference with. That was shxt Kenyans will look back to and wonder how stupid were these lenders as well as policymakers.

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth. Of course,this for sure will sober up prudent banking and thus enabling real economic lending that will spur growth in Kenya.

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. And its well known that manipulation of interest rates is a awful open market monetary operation technique with side effects equivalent to nuke attack. Affecting even the undesired targets and waywire fallback. A tool only used by government to rob the society for failure to adhere to prudent economic practices our government has seen that and has taken a decisive measure to bring that to soberity and heighten the sensititivity it deserved. . Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES (why defend KES in the first place? You can not defend what you already maligned and butchered at the alter of immoral profits, corporate drunken stupor et al by few thieving and conniving lazy blood sucking leaches) at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term. Fallacy of the highest order, caps are here in the first place because your counter offer was misused, free market. Now every dick, tom and harry knows well there was nothing like free market. All players ganged up to gag up the economically sensible borrower. Why give a gun to someone so eager to shoot you through the pupil of your eye and then turn it on self? Recklessness. Could someone atleast prove to be in control and of the right mind and capacity to handle no caps before arguing about free markets. Caps are our own medicine, prescribed by us to us. we can prescribe what works any day and time if need be including no caps only if it had not failed us so terribly..

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters" thank very much. CBK has a plethora of tools to use to establish an effective fiscal monetary policy that is effective and efficient and should desist amputing our patient simply because they were lazy to manage a single sore finger. We respect our colonial masters, the advice is good but its too late because the patient is at alittle bit different level of diagnosing. Thank you very much.

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
I suggest cbk to continue pursuing a low interest regime to normalise the already overburden smes and entrepreneurs to encourage establishment, growth and contain sparodic sprouting of smes et al thus thwarting unfair competition/ over competition that has made credit almost unaccessible to Kenyans.



Good summary Economist


I miss the days of Barclay's bank, kuja bila chochote. The economy was growing under the able hands of men and women who knew the essence of optimal capital structuring, sio kila kitu loan. Men of vision who earnestly worked to create real economic growth that translated to higher purchasing power and standards of living. Loan ilikuwa kwa mpango, sio kampango Ka kendo, and then you end up with several tumpangos twa upuzi very many orphaned/ npls and bank closures.


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Ngalaka
#1809 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:16:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
tom_boy wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
winmak wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)
better no credit at all than led to a thief. This is the precedence behind high prevalence of thieving, complacence and coraption in Kenya. Unsecured loans was the highway to defrauding the banks. Kwani, utado nini nisipolipa culture has to be brought to a stop, to unlock lending to entrepreneurs.(Moving money from bank A to B and then C does create no value.) And then, no CBR to reference with. That was shxt Kenyans will look back to and wonder how stupid were these lenders as well as policymakers.

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth. Of course,this for sure will sober up prudent banking and thus enabling real economic lending that will spur growth in Kenya.

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. And its well known that manipulation of interest rates is a awful open market monetary operation technique with side effects equivalent to nuke attack. Affecting even the undesired targets and waywire fallback. A tool only used by government to rob the society for failure to adhere to prudent economic practices our government has seen that and has taken a decisive measure to bring that to soberity and heighten the sensititivity it deserved. . Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES (why defend KES in the first place? You can not defend what you already maligned and butchered at the alter of immoral profits, corporate drunken stupor et al by few thieving and conniving lazy blood sucking leaches) at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term. Fallacy of the highest order, caps are here in the first place because your counter offer was misused, free market. Now every dick, tom and harry knows well there was nothing like free market. All players ganged up to gag up the economically sensible borrower. Why give a gun to someone so eager to shoot you through the pupil of your eye and then turn it on self? Recklessness. Could someone atleast prove to be in control and of the right mind and capacity to handle no caps before arguing about free markets. Caps are our own medicine, prescribed by us to us. we can prescribe what works any day and time if need be including no caps only if it had not failed us so terribly..

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters" thank very much. CBK has a plethora of tools to use to establish an effective fiscal monetary policy that is effective and efficient and should desist amputing our patient simply because they were lazy to manage a single sore finger. We respect our colonial masters, the advice is good but its too late because the patient is at alittle bit different level of diagnosing. Thank you very much.

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
I suggest cbk to continue pursuing a low interest regime to normalise the already overburden smes and entrepreneurs to encourage establishment, growth and contain sparodic sprouting of smes et al thus thwarting unfair competition/ over competition that has made credit almost unaccessible to Kenyans.



Good summary Economist


I miss the days of Barclay's bank, kuja bila chochote. The economy was growing under the able hands of men and women who knew the essence of optimal capital structuring, sio kila kitu loan. Men of vision who earnestly worked to create real economic growth that translated to higher purchasing power and standards of living. Loan ilikuwa kwa mpango, sio kampango Ka kendo, and then you end up with several tumpangos twa upuzi very many orphaned/ npls and bank closures.


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.


You have to look at the borrowing pool in numbers from which you draw averages.

so take that there will be 70 such borrowers. Out of them maybe 15 will default, but the margins realised from the other 55 makes the lender break even.

One can never guarantee that the borrower you cited will definitely fail in his venture. The only issue here is that the risk is higher.

Its a pity that you suggest that he should be denied credit! If he gets the money and intensely grows peanuts somewhere in Bungoma or green-grams in Makuueni, bananas in Meru, Minji in Muranga etc.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
muandiwambeu
#1810 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:35:12 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
tom_boy wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
winmak wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)
better no credit at all than led to a thief. This is the precedence behind high prevalence of thieving, complacence and coraption in Kenya. Unsecured loans was the highway to defrauding the banks. Kwani, utado nini nisipolipa culture has to be brought to a stop, to unlock lending to entrepreneurs.(Moving money from bank A to B and then C does create no value.) And then, no CBR to reference with. That was shxt Kenyans will look back to and wonder how stupid were these lenders as well as policymakers.

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth. Of course,this for sure will sober up prudent banking and thus enabling real economic lending that will spur growth in Kenya.

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. And its well known that manipulation of interest rates is a awful open market monetary operation technique with side effects equivalent to nuke attack. Affecting even the undesired targets and waywire fallback. A tool only used by government to rob the society for failure to adhere to prudent economic practices our government has seen that and has taken a decisive measure to bring that to soberity and heighten the sensititivity it deserved. . Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES (why defend KES in the first place? You can not defend what you already maligned and butchered at the alter of immoral profits, corporate drunken stupor et al by few thieving and conniving lazy blood sucking leaches) at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term. Fallacy of the highest order, caps are here in the first place because your counter offer was misused, free market. Now every dick, tom and harry knows well there was nothing like free market. All players ganged up to gag up the economically sensible borrower. Why give a gun to someone so eager to shoot you through the pupil of your eye and then turn it on self? Recklessness. Could someone atleast prove to be in control and of the right mind and capacity to handle no caps before arguing about free markets. Caps are our own medicine, prescribed by us to us. we can prescribe what works any day and time if need be including no caps only if it had not failed us so terribly..

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters" thank very much. CBK has a plethora of tools to use to establish an effective fiscal monetary policy that is effective and efficient and should desist amputing our patient simply because they were lazy to manage a single sore finger. We respect our colonial masters, the advice is good but its too late because the patient is at alittle bit different level of diagnosing. Thank you very much.

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
I suggest cbk to continue pursuing a low interest regime to normalise the already overburden smes and entrepreneurs to encourage establishment, growth and contain sparodic sprouting of smes et al thus thwarting unfair competition/ over competition that has made credit almost unaccessible to Kenyans.



Good summary Economist


I miss the days of Barclay's bank, kuja bila chochote. The economy was growing under the able hands of men and women who knew the essence of optimal capital structuring, sio kila kitu loan. Men of vision who earnestly worked to create real economic growth that translated to higher purchasing power and standards of living. Loan ilikuwa kwa mpango, sio kampango Ka kendo, and then you end up with several tumpangos twa upuzi very many orphaned/ npls and bank closures.


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.


Thank you sanasana, karibu sana na tena @tomboy.
Mambo ya kuambiwa mwanaume nikujaribu jaribu, ni upuzi tupu! Mwanaume ni kujaribu, sio kujaribu jaribu. Na ingekuwa ni kujaribu jaribu, wacha ata wanawake wajaribu jaribu pia, kila mtu natumpango tumpango ama tu branchLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly. Kampango coop, kampango sacco, kampango mwiganania, kujaribu jaribu kwa hisa (kiasi mwanaume mwenye two balls anaitwa wanjiku yule wa kuwash wash), matatu, bonda bonda, kuibaiba mwajiri etc.
That's all that is ailing Kenya. Example is mumias. Abandons tandra project because of delays and misallocation of funds to non optimal options such as water bottling at exhobitant costs pursuing kickbacks, ethanol etc.
The list is endless. All pointing to one simple fact. Short cuts and small timing mindedness.
By 2018, banks will loathe caps stay forever. That cbk adopts a few stakeholders from banking fraternity to streamline banking, that the team include consumer groups representatives, that tough penalties and rules be brought on board to protect the vulnerable economy for efficient allocation of resources.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
Ngalaka
#1811 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:40:50 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
tom_boy wrote:


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.



Indeed, banks have adjusted accordingly - the result - lending to a very select few. Effect of that on the economy = slow down.

You suggest they try harderd'oh! and we continue waiting - on a leap of faith kind of!

As regards the school of thought - you prove that you dont need the money to get credit maxim. What about start ups/venture capitalist - or do we obliterate those!
We would all do with low interest rates - in fact I am yet to come across one person who is for rates in the mid 20's and beyond. But the way to bring them down is not the kind of capping we have in place.

Given the two 'evils' most would rather rates at 23% than no credit at all. Think of a business that has a tender to supply some schools with cereals and other food stuff, they would still break even, while still serving facilities at 23%.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
wukan
#1812 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 11:00:14 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,596
Banking for dummies will help some of us

Every time you take a loan you create new money and when you repay the loan you destroy money. If banks are not lending and people keep repaying the existing loans then money is destroyed and that's why wanjiku is feeling the effect "there is no money".

Anyway people learn better through experience so let's continue with this crackpot economicssmile smile at the end of it you will know how a balance sheet recession looks like.
muandiwambeu
#1813 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 11:28:54 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
Ngalaka wrote:
tom_boy wrote:


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.



Indeed, banks have adjusted accordingly - the result - lending to a very select few. Effect of that on the economy = slow down.slow down is not a death sentence, it happens all over the world including developed nations. Expansionary monetary policy does not always result in real growth. And contraction shockwaves may mean wiping of all gains and devastation. Its called quality and not quantity.

You suggest they try harderd'oh! and we continue waiting - on a leap of faith kind of! Credit is not the only source of business finance. With a spoilt kid caning sometimes works wonders.

As regards the school of thought - you prove that you dont need the money to get credit maxim. What about start ups/venture capitalist - or do we obliterate those! Let them partner up, form solid companies founded on solid ideas and this way the economy will grow. Smart ideas will be supported to the bitter ending. Let them come to money markets and tantilise muandiwambeu with sweet dreams of investments. That way Kenya will attract big money and we will be the silicon valley of Africa at least.

We would all do with low interest rates - in fact I am yet to come across one person who is for rates in the mid 20's and beyond. But the way to bring them down is not the kind of capping we have in place. Observing a stricter diet with an obses may sound like death knell, but what else would you do when the consequences of not are suicidal?

Given the two 'evils' most would rather rates at 23% than no credit at all. Think of a business that has a tender to supply some schools with cereals and other food stuff, they would still break even, while still serving facilities at 23%. Why give or take the contract in the first place if there is no capacity. How where the expenses supposed to be paid in the first place if not financially up to it, kabura style. Am very conversant with contract/ tendering procedures and bear me whiteness, that where hell starts. Incapable contractor is eager to complacence than one with due capacity. Lack of capacity means to me no name to loose or defend, no skin in the game, get rich quickly schemes that never works. Reminds me of the welder's story. So do not ask me why your roads will have pot holes or shoddy/ collapsing banks if this the medicine you prescribe.

,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
the deal
#1814 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:16:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Even in SA interest rates are capped somehow...Kenyan banks got away with murder for too long...F what the IMF says on this one...Uhuru is right on this one he only errored on those deposit ceilings...
obiero
#1815 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:33:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,552
Location: nairobi
the deal wrote:
Even in SA interest rates are capped somehow...Kenyan banks got away with murder for too long...F what the IMF says on this one...Uhuru is right on this one he only errored on those deposit ceilings...

Agreed. The bill had the right intent, but the outcomes have proved a bit too much for the leadership to manage. HE Kibaki would have sorted this dilemma quick. One fast remedy would be to raise CBR

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
tom_boy
#1816 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2017 5:40:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Ngalaka wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
winmak wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)
better no credit at all than led to a thief. This is the precedence behind high prevalence of thieving, complacence and coraption in Kenya. Unsecured loans was the highway to defrauding the banks. Kwani, utado nini nisipolipa culture has to be brought to a stop, to unlock lending to entrepreneurs.(Moving money from bank A to B and then C does create no value.) And then, no CBR to reference with. That was shxt Kenyans will look back to and wonder how stupid were these lenders as well as policymakers.

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth. Of course,this for sure will sober up prudent banking and thus enabling real economic lending that will spur growth in Kenya.

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. And its well known that manipulation of interest rates is a awful open market monetary operation technique with side effects equivalent to nuke attack. Affecting even the undesired targets and waywire fallback. A tool only used by government to rob the society for failure to adhere to prudent economic practices our government has seen that and has taken a decisive measure to bring that to soberity and heighten the sensititivity it deserved. . Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES (why defend KES in the first place? You can not defend what you already maligned and butchered at the alter of immoral profits, corporate drunken stupor et al by few thieving and conniving lazy blood sucking leaches) at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term. Fallacy of the highest order, caps are here in the first place because your counter offer was misused, free market. Now every dick, tom and harry knows well there was nothing like free market. All players ganged up to gag up the economically sensible borrower. Why give a gun to someone so eager to shoot you through the pupil of your eye and then turn it on self? Recklessness. Could someone atleast prove to be in control and of the right mind and capacity to handle no caps before arguing about free markets. Caps are our own medicine, prescribed by us to us. we can prescribe what works any day and time if need be including no caps only if it had not failed us so terribly..

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters" thank very much. CBK has a plethora of tools to use to establish an effective fiscal monetary policy that is effective and efficient and should desist amputing our patient simply because they were lazy to manage a single sore finger. We respect our colonial masters, the advice is good but its too late because the patient is at alittle bit different level of diagnosing. Thank you very much.

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
I suggest cbk to continue pursuing a low interest regime to normalise the already overburden smes and entrepreneurs to encourage establishment, growth and contain sparodic sprouting of smes et al thus thwarting unfair competition/ over competition that has made credit almost unaccessible to Kenyans.



Good summary Economist


I miss the days of Barclay's bank, kuja bila chochote. The economy was growing under the able hands of men and women who knew the essence of optimal capital structuring, sio kila kitu loan. Men of vision who earnestly worked to create real economic growth that translated to higher purchasing power and standards of living. Loan ilikuwa kwa mpango, sio kampango Ka kendo, and then you end up with several tumpangos twa upuzi very many orphaned/ npls and bank closures.


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.


You have to look at the borrowing pool in numbers from which you draw averages.

so take that there will be 70 such borrowers. Out of them maybe 15 will default, but the margins realised from the other 55 makes the lender break even.T hose 15 make interest rates high for everyone. Banks should find a way to weed out the 15 and provide low rates to the remaining 55. Rate caps will force banks to find that way

One can never guarantee that the borrower you cited will definitely fail in his venture. The only issue here is that the risk is higher.

Its a pity that you suggest that he should be denied credit! If he gets the money and intensely grows peanuts somewhere in Bungoma or green-grams in Makuueni, bananas in Meru, Minji in Muranga etc.

Few people succeed in business when they start out on loan. Those crying foul over lack of credit is because they have no cashflow/ profitability to show. They were the ones riding high on high interest rates, the modern day cowboys, devil be damned tenderprenuers.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
muandiwambeu
#1817 Posted : Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:16:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
tom_boy wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
winmak wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
KenyanEconomist wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/01/26/imf-wants-kenya-to-scrap-interest-caps-on-loans_c1494899 ^

IMF must be as confused as the rest of us who said this will happen.

Never mind exactly what we said will happen happened. It must be a coincidence that can be explained away somehow or a still a figment of our imagination like it was said to be when we predicted it!!!



IMF wakende huko... we're a sovereign state..


LOL, a sovereign state who needs a loan from the IMF. IMF is granting CBK a $1.5bn standby facility to keep the KES stable, and came to our rescue during the 2011 FX crisis, yet Kenyans are so thankless.

It's like going to a bank, asking your Banker for a facility, mismanaging your personal finances (as our Politicians have mismanaged and looted our finances), and when the Banker tells you to be careful so you are able to pay back, your wife and children start cursing the banker!!

But indeed, we are a sovereign state, with the freedom to make poor decisions if we so choose!


No need to panic. Interest rate caps are good for us. About the only thing that UK has done right. World Bank and IMF et al are colonial masters. Better to do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Rate caps will force responsible lending. Thats what we need.



Whether World Bank and IMF et all are colonial masters or not does not take away from the following:

1. Int Rate cap of 4% + CBR has taken away unsecured borrowing in kenya (as one SME put it, better an expensive loan than none at all)
better no credit at all than led to a thief. This is the precedence behind high prevalence of thieving, complacence and coraption in Kenya. Unsecured loans was the highway to defrauding the banks. Kwani, utado nini nisipolipa culture has to be brought to a stop, to unlock lending to entrepreneurs.(Moving money from bank A to B and then C does create no value.) And then, no CBR to reference with. That was shxt Kenyans will look back to and wonder how stupid were these lenders as well as policymakers.

2. Private Sector Credit Growth is lowest it's been in years. If this continues, it will affect Kenya's Growth. Of course,this for sure will sober up prudent banking and thus enabling real economic lending that will spur growth in Kenya.

3. More importantly, Interest Cap as is hand-cuffs the CBK's ability to effectively carry out Monetary Policy. And its well known that manipulation of interest rates is a awful open market monetary operation technique with side effects equivalent to nuke attack. Affecting even the undesired targets and waywire fallback. A tool only used by government to rob the society for failure to adhere to prudent economic practices our government has seen that and has taken a decisive measure to bring that to soberity and heighten the sensititivity it deserved. . Any move in the CBR rate now directly impacts lending rates, which was not the intent.

A. Imagine that CBK wants to increase rates to defend the KES (why defend KES in the first place? You can not defend what you already maligned and butchered at the alter of immoral profits, corporate drunken stupor et al by few thieving and conniving lazy blood sucking leaches) at next week's meeting. If they raise the CBR by 200 bps, that means cost of deposits immediately jump from 7% to 8.4%, while cost of loans jumps from 14% to 16% the next day. This hits mwananchi immediately. An election year like 2017, this means that CBK is less likely to carry out its mandate because the increase in Int rates will be viewed negatively. CBR is supposed to indirectly influence interest rate expectations, not directly.

B. Now imagine that the slowdown in Private Sector Credit Growth scares the CBK, and they decide to stimulate the economy. The correct monetary action would be to reduce rates. If they reduce rates from 10% to 8%, this would mean that the max lending rates that banks can lend are at 12%. This would freeze up borrowing even further, as banks would be even more picky with who they lend to, and demand more collateral! Note that not even GOK can borrow at 12% long term. Fallacy of the highest order, caps are here in the first place because your counter offer was misused, free market. Now every dick, tom and harry knows well there was nothing like free market. All players ganged up to gag up the economically sensible borrower. Why give a gun to someone so eager to shoot you through the pupil of your eye and then turn it on self? Recklessness. Could someone atleast prove to be in control and of the right mind and capacity to handle no caps before arguing about free markets. Caps are our own medicine, prescribed by us to us. we can prescribe what works any day and time if need be including no caps only if it had not failed us so terribly..

No one is saying that the Idea of a rate cap cannot work in Kenya, but the current law restricts lending and also hamstrings CBK's monetary policy. IMF is correct, whether or not they are "colonial masters" thank very much. CBK has a plethora of tools to use to establish an effective fiscal monetary policy that is effective and efficient and should desist amputing our patient simply because they were lazy to manage a single sore finger. We respect our colonial masters, the advice is good but its too late because the patient is at alittle bit different level of diagnosing. Thank you very much.

I suggest they "adjust" the cap and base it on KBRR instead of CBR rate. Also increase the band from 400 bps to ~800 bps.
I suggest cbk to continue pursuing a low interest regime to normalise the already overburden smes and entrepreneurs to encourage establishment, growth and contain sparodic sprouting of smes et al thus thwarting unfair competition/ over competition that has made credit almost unaccessible to Kenyans.



Good summary Economist


I miss the days of Barclay's bank, kuja bila chochote. The economy was growing under the able hands of men and women who knew the essence of optimal capital structuring, sio kila kitu loan. Men of vision who earnestly worked to create real economic growth that translated to higher purchasing power and standards of living. Loan ilikuwa kwa mpango, sio kampango Ka kendo, and then you end up with several tumpangos twa upuzi very many orphaned/ npls and bank closures.


Fact - Banks will never stop lending. Our problem is that banks have not invested in mechanisms to rate borrowers. This is because of the previous interest rate largesse that was ill adviced. There was no incentive for responsible lending. For sure, banks are in turmoil but those that re invent their systems will survive and thrive.

Can the anti rate cap crusade explain to me this: If the watchman, earning 6k salary approaches you for a loan of 100k to start farming. Has zero experience in this venture. Would you say, " hmmm, I think you are high risk so let me charge you 30% interest to hegde my risk. In addition give me your shamba as collateral." This way, you give money to someone with slim ability to repay and charge high interest to further make it harder to pay. End result is default and you know who ends up with the shamba.

Beats logic. Its just systematic thievery perpetuated by govt in conjuction with banks.

There used to be a maxim, " to get a loan from from a bank, you must first prove that you dont need it". There is some truth in that. It must have emanated from responsible lending practices, which are foreign to our banks.

@kenyaneconomist, I can bet you that that sme guy who says better an expensive loan than none at all has no idea about finance and that sme is struggling and they are in denial about the lack of profitability of the venture and they are not paying their taxes and dont keep books of account. These are the guys getting 30% loans to buy a lorry ya kubeba mchanga, never mind they are office dudes with zero experience in that hussle, no time to manage it and bank still goes ahead to lend. The bank knows the venture will not succeed but at 30%, the bank will have made their money back in 12 months and the rest is pure profit for remaining 2 yrs. At 12%, that hesabu in now tilted against the bank with a real possibility of loss.


You have to look at the borrowing pool in numbers from which you draw averages.

so take that there will be 70 such borrowers. Out of them maybe 15 will default, but the margins realised from the other 55 makes the lender break even.T hose 15 make interest rates high for everyone. Banks should find a way to weed out the 15 and provide low rates to the remaining 55. Rate caps will force banks to find that way

One can never guarantee that the borrower you cited will definitely fail in his venture. The only issue here is that the risk is higher.

Its a pity that you suggest that he should be denied credit! If he gets the money and intensely grows peanuts somewhere in Bungoma or green-grams in Makuueni, bananas in Meru, Minji in Muranga etc.

Few people succeed in business when they start out on loan. Those crying foul over lack of credit is because they have no cashflow/ profitability to show. They were the ones riding high on high interest rates, the modern day cowboys, devil be damned tenderprenuers.

Based on that observation, banks hardly have they been funding startups. So, tusiletewe nyenyenye za tumbili.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
tafutabiz
#1818 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 8:18:24 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/3/2014
Posts: 20
I don't trust IMF and World Bank. I don't know of their very successful policies. I know their failures, infact they engineered African poverty through their Stractural Adjustments Programs(SAP). Greece followed their advice to the grave.

At 30% interest what kind of business are the SME's doing to give them positive returns ama ni wash wash? Interest capping is the best thing to happen in Uhuru's reign. The banks that come to terms with this sooner the better.
Ericsson
#1819 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 10:09:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,702
Location: NAIROBI
Last week T-bills were undersubscribed for the 5th week at 76.6%, compared to 82.5% previously
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
guru267
#1820 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 2:41:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
tafutabiz wrote:
I don't trust IMF and World Bank. I don't know of their very successful policies. I know their failures, infact they engineered African poverty through their Stractural Adjustments Programs(SAP). Greece followed their advice to the grave.

At 30% interest what kind of business are the SME's doing to give them positive returns ama ni wash wash? Interest capping is the best thing to happen in Uhuru's reign. The banks that come to terms with this sooner the better.


Tell that to the SMEs who are sitting with decline letters from Banks and are now getting worse shafting from the Micro institutions and the likes of Mshwari.

The economy will continue to bleed until this thing is reversed and the Banks will make sure of it!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Users browsing this topic
Guest (7)
151 Pages«<8990919293>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2025 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.