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Karai(Naivasha) Accident
Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/27/2009 Posts: 1,437
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hardwood wrote:The residents have spoken and have said what I have been saying all along. http://www.the-star.co.k...nts-tell-uhuru_c1472755
C&P Quote:Bumps not to blame for Naivasha fire tragedy, residents tell Uhuru
Residents of Karai in Naivasha, where a fireball killed 42 people on Saturday, have said they will not permit the removal of speed bumps.
They differed with President Uhuru Kenyatta and the motorists association that said the accident on Nairobi-Nakuru highway had to do with the bumps.
Uhuru said on Monday that the Kenya National Highways Authority erected the bumps without consultation.
But the residents said they have helped reduce, not increase, the number of accidents in the area.
Groups that gathered at Raini, Karai and Kinungi said the crash that occurred before a tanker exploded resulted from human error.
Their leader James Kabono said only two people had died since the bumps were erected last year.
“The lorry that caused the accident lost control long before it hit the speed bumps. Calls to remove them are far-fetched,” he said.
“The solution lies in erecting speed signs on the highway, not removing bumps." Is a footbridge or tunnel not more appropriate here? It might be expensive but it will save lives of both motorists and pedestrians.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Iganamagana wrote:hardwood wrote:The residents have spoken and have said what I have been saying all along. http://www.the-star.co.k...nts-tell-uhuru_c1472755
C&P Quote:Bumps not to blame for Naivasha fire tragedy, residents tell Uhuru
Residents of Karai in Naivasha, where a fireball killed 42 people on Saturday, have said they will not permit the removal of speed bumps.
They differed with President Uhuru Kenyatta and the motorists association that said the accident on Nairobi-Nakuru highway had to do with the bumps.
Uhuru said on Monday that the Kenya National Highways Authority erected the bumps without consultation.
But the residents said they have helped reduce, not increase, the number of accidents in the area.
Groups that gathered at Raini, Karai and Kinungi said the crash that occurred before a tanker exploded resulted from human error.
Their leader James Kabono said only two people had died since the bumps were erected last year.
“The lorry that caused the accident lost control long before it hit the speed bumps. Calls to remove them are far-fetched,” he said.
“The solution lies in erecting speed signs on the highway, not removing bumps." Is a footbridge or tunnel not more appropriate here? It might be expensive but it will save lives of both motorists and pedestrians. If nairobians prefer to dash across thika road or valley road than use the footbridges, how do you expect the villagers huko ushago to use one? Do you expect the old, kids, sick, walevi etc to walk long distances to access the footbridge to cross the road? Also do you expect them to move their cattle, goats and donkeys over the footbridge when moving them from one side of the village to the other? Bumps are more effective since you can put several of them over a certain stretch unlike foot bridges where you can only put one. Also the mbs-malaba highway has bumps all over. If you drive from nairobi to mbs you find bumps all over starting at mlolongo, all the way down huko salama, sultan hamud, emali, mtito etc and in many other trading centres in between and this a road that is used by giant trucks. If bumps work perfectly on that eastern side of the highway why not on the naivasha stretch, a stretch where heavy trucks are banned from using the road and are directed to use mai mahiu rd?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/27/2009 Posts: 1,437
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hardwood wrote:Iganamagana wrote:hardwood wrote:The residents have spoken and have said what I have been saying all along. http://www.the-star.co.k...nts-tell-uhuru_c1472755
C&P Quote:Bumps not to blame for Naivasha fire tragedy, residents tell Uhuru
Residents of Karai in Naivasha, where a fireball killed 42 people on Saturday, have said they will not permit the removal of speed bumps.
They differed with President Uhuru Kenyatta and the motorists association that said the accident on Nairobi-Nakuru highway had to do with the bumps.
Uhuru said on Monday that the Kenya National Highways Authority erected the bumps without consultation.
But the residents said they have helped reduce, not increase, the number of accidents in the area.
Groups that gathered at Raini, Karai and Kinungi said the crash that occurred before a tanker exploded resulted from human error.
Their leader James Kabono said only two people had died since the bumps were erected last year.
“The lorry that caused the accident lost control long before it hit the speed bumps. Calls to remove them are far-fetched,” he said.
“The solution lies in erecting speed signs on the highway, not removing bumps." Is a footbridge or tunnel not more appropriate here? It might be expensive but it will save lives of both motorists and pedestrians. If nairobians prefer to dash across thika road or valley road than use the footbridges, how do you expect the villagers huko ushago to use one? Do you expect the old, kids, sick, walevi etc to walk long distances to access the footbridge to cross the road? Also do you expect them to move their cattle, goats and donkeys over the footbridge when moving them from one side of the village to the other? Bumps are more effective since you can put several of them over a certain stretch unlike foot bridges where you can only put one. Also the mbs-malaba highway has bumps all over. If you drive from nairobi to mbs you find bumps all over starting at mlolongo, all the way down huko salama, sultan hamud, emali, mtito etc and in many other trading centres in between and this a road is used by giant trucks. If bumps work perfectly on that eastern side of the highway why not on the naivasha stretch, a stretch where heavy trucks are banned from using the road and its directed that trucks use mai mahiu rd? I still believe tunnels would be more appropriate here and in so many other places. Hardwood can easily cross with his donkeys while school children will not be at risk. Just because we have bumps all over our highways does not mean it is right. We are actually violating our building code by providing every house / mall / kiosk an exit to the highway. Access should be through a service lane or a common entrance to an estate. Look at the mess KENHA is making out of the Thika Superhighway giving every mall and petrol station access in total disregard of commonsense!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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I think @hardwood is clouded by govt sycophancy. He cannot see anything outside that.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Ohuru should also be first consulting experts/relevant authorities and issuing statements based on facts and not emotion. This case has been particularly embarrassing for him coz of the following: 1. saying that "the truck was on a road it was not supposed to be on" only for the PS to say the canter was allowed to operate on that road. 2. saying bumps were put ovyo ovyo without consultations or markings while KENHA had put photos showing warning signs, rumble strips and marked bump. KENHA also said there were wide consultations before bumps were put. 3. saying accident was caused by the bump only for villagers to correct him that the bump did not cause the accident and that the canter had lost control long before it got to the bump.  Rumble strips 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:I think @hardwood is clouded by govt sycophancy. He cannot see anything outside that. I always argue my cases based on logic/facts/evidence while most of you follow emotions and "what everybody else is saying". As @masukuma wiki always says, you cant argue against data/facts. After all the emotions cool down and people have ventilated, what remains are the facts.....and this applies to all cases - from the bumps to Trump.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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http://www.nation.co.ke/...183314-3485110-k1nd4qz/
Quote:
We’ll oppose attempts to remove bumps from highway, Naivasha residents say
A showdown is looming between residents of Karai in Naivasha and the government over a proposal to remove speed humps at the dangerous stretch along the Nairobi-Naivasha highway where over 40 people died on Saturday.
The bumps have been cited as the possible cause of the Saturday night accident.
In his Jamhuri Day speech, President Uhuru Kenyatta told the Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA) and the Infrastructure ministry to take responsibility for reckless erection of bumps on highways and asked them to do a better job.
But Karai residents, led by spokesman Kabono Mwangi, have said they will resist any attempt to remove the speed humps.
“We have lost a number of people while trying to cross the road at the point where the accident occurred,” he said.
The resident said the government should prepare for protests if the speed humps along the perilous stretch are removed.
“It is through such demonstrations that the bumps were erected and we will revert back to protest should the bumps be removed,” added Mr Mwangi.
He blamed the Saturday night accident to brakes failure, saying the truck that caused the accident was speeding before crashing into several oncoming vehicles.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I think @hardwood is clouded by govt sycophancy. He cannot see anything outside that. I always argue my cases based on logic/facts/evidence while most you follow emotions and "what everybody else is saying". As @masukuma wiki always says, you cant argue against data/facts. After all the emotions cool down and people have ventilated, what remains are the facts.....and this applies to all cases - from the bumps to Trump. First, I think you know that nothing good is cheap. It's backward to always think cheap is sustainable. So govt needs to think longterm: foot bridges and tunnels at busy areas. Secondly, we need to change the mentality of our people. In order to do that, we should change ours then teach the rest. We cannot live by crossing the High ways any point you wish... We end up having to erect bumps all over the highway defeating the purpose of it being called a highway in the first place. You said, "Bumps are more effective since you can put several of them over a certain stretch unlike foot bridges where you can only put one." You see, since you cannot put bumps the whole stretch of the highway, similarly you can replace bumps in those areas with foot bridges. If a town has two points where speed bumps are important, then put a foot bridge there... Go back to the first point about cost. We need to abolish short cut mentality! This kind of mentality is what took our By Passes lying idle for 24 years. It took only Kibaki to make the hard decision....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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The residents now say that they want MORE bumps. As the saying goes, it's only the wearer of the shoe that knows where it pinches. And the wearers of the shoes are saying that they want even more bumps. http://www.the-star.co.k...asha-residents_c1472724
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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hardwood wrote:The residents now say that they want MORE bumps. As the saying goes, it's only the wearer of the shoe that knows where it pinches. And the wearers of the shoes are saying that they want even more bumps. http://www.the-star.co.k...asha-residents_c1472724
motorists still 'wear' that shoe!! watengenezewa flyover and all those bumps zitolewe. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:masukuma wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:masukuma wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:masukuma wrote:the thing about kila kitu in kenya is that tuko na experts wengi on all matters. i think it's easy to be a critic! very easy! kuwa doer ni noma. Kila mtu ni expert wa kazi ya watu wengine and kwanza they are not even the best in their jobs. I stopped listening to people talk about 'what happened'. there was a certain security expert who was always giving advice to the police... akapatiwa job huko akanyamaza! I don't think its bad to have opinions and to be an expert, even huko world of scientists they have theoretical scientists and practical ones, and in most cases you can not switch them, but its from the theories that the practical guys get their directions, so I think the experts play a vital role. if you assemble a group of architects and engineers and have them do battle against the fundis and the watu wa mkono in say laying a slab or putting up a masonry wall the latter will most likely do a better job. ni domo domo mob!! anyway - wakuongea wacha waongee... but they are not even great at what they do kwao. maAcademics!! Textbook knowledge... but the truth is wrapped up using this quote! Quote:It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Kuongea ni free... somethings are easy to articulate but not do and only the man who has been in the field can know this. Criticism is good and helps improve results. I don't need to know how something is done to criticize, I can critique by observing how someone is doing something to point out their shortcomings I agree that criticism is productive when applied with tact! however, it becomes easy for people to listen to critics who are outsiders more and take them as authorities on the subject matter and not understand the setup the 'man in the arena' is working in. let's face it - criticism is easy!! very very easy! you just need to have a modicum of intelligence to criticise. Plus the biggest issue i have with critics is that they are not 'that good' at what they do in the 1st place.... kazi ya wengine ni rahisi! Remember when Asbel lost the race - all manner of couch potatoes with one packs were 'advising him'... how he should have done it! just because you know 'HOW TO DO IT' does not mean that 'YOU CAN DO IT' even when the task is a simple as running (placing one leg before the other at high speed). Understanding how to do something is like 5% of the total task and that is where we lose the value of the 95%. Let us not forget that you also gave your expert opinion and critic without getting your facts right about the road and like the chorus was, blaming the bump Masukush #40 Posted : Monday, December 12, 2016 wrote:
there are better ways to handle this - rumble bumps to warn the drivers that a huge bump in coming. Flyovers - but they aint cheap! flyovers with blocked roads katikati. As seen you just change the type of casualties by just putting a huge bump in the middle of the road.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:The residents now say that they want MORE bumps. As the saying goes, it's only the wearer of the shoe that knows where it pinches. And the wearers of the shoes are saying that they want even more bumps. http://www.the-star.co.k...asha-residents_c1472724
motorists still 'wear' that shoe!! watengenezewa flyover and all those bumps zitolewe. We understand that you need to race your blue subarus on that road to enjoy the power of your machines lakini safety of the villagers comes first.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/30/2016 Posts: 332 Location: Rift Valley
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hardwood wrote:
We understand that you need to race your blue subarus on that road to enjoy the power of your machines lakini safety of the villagers comes first.
We are talking about a road network that serves not only Kenya but the rest of East Africa. It is the height of hypocrisy to ignore the safety of other road users. We are not trying to imitate rally drivers.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:
We understand that you need to race your blue subarus on that road to enjoy the power of your machines lakini safety of the villagers comes first.
We are talking about a road network that serves not only Kenya but the rest of East Africa. It is the height of hypocrisy to ignore the safety of other road users. We are not trying to imitate rally drivers. There are hundreds of bumps on that 950km road from mombasa to malaba. Why focus on only one bump? Why not those at mtito andei, salama, mlolongo, salgaa, timboroa, cheptiret, jua kali, kipkarren etc etc?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:The residents now say that they want MORE bumps. As the saying goes, it's only the wearer of the shoe that knows where it pinches. And the wearers of the shoes are saying that they want even more bumps. http://www.the-star.co.k...asha-residents_c1472724
@hardwood, we understand and feel the residence plight. But bro, residence are not expert source of knowledge. We need to adopt forward thinking development. Even if the road users will feel some pain. It's just like motorists are required to drive a distance to access a u-turn or interchange on s high-way. The motorists do not just turn anywhere they want to save time and disrupt other road users. Similar to pedestrians. It is painful to wait for traffic lights... it's painful to walk to a pedestrian crossing... But it is the most efficient way to achieve the bigger goal
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:
We understand that you need to race your blue subarus on that road to enjoy the power of your machines lakini safety of the villagers comes first.
We are talking about a road network that serves not only Kenya but the rest of East Africa. It is the height of hypocrisy to ignore the safety of other road users. We are not trying to imitate rally drivers. There are hundreds of bumps on that 950km road from mombasa to malaba. Why focus on only one bump? Why not those at mtito andei, salama, mlolongo, salgaa, timboroa, cheptiret, jua kali, kipkarren etc etc? I don't know why this bump issue is still alive, its clear that accident was caused by either a defective vehicle or a crazy driver, and compounded by some drivers who lack common courtesy on the road, actually I am with the resident who want more bumps put up on that stretch, how many minutes will a driver lose even after more bumps are erected 10/15 minutes.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:
We understand that you need to race your blue subarus on that road to enjoy the power of your machines lakini safety of the villagers comes first.
We are talking about a road network that serves not only Kenya but the rest of East Africa. It is the height of hypocrisy to ignore the safety of other road users. We are not trying to imitate rally drivers. There are hundreds of bumps on that 950km road from mombasa to malaba. Why focus on only one bump? Why not those at mtito andei, salama, mlolongo, salgaa, timboroa, cheptiret, jua kali, kipkarren etc etc? @hardwood, we have to start from somewhere. Two wrongs does not make it a right. If bumps are numerous in all those other areas, let us start small and work towards replacing them with fly-overs at busy points... along all these highways... Efficiency will be achieved.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:The residents now say that they want MORE bumps. As the saying goes, it's only the wearer of the shoe that knows where it pinches. And the wearers of the shoes are saying that they want even more bumps. http://www.the-star.co.k...asha-residents_c1472724
@hardwood, we understand and feel the residence plight. But bro, residence are not expert source of knowledge. We need to adopt forward thinking development. Even if the road users will feel some pain. It's just like motorists are required to drive a distance to access a u-turn or interchange on s high-way. The motorists do not just turn anywhere they want to save time and disrupt other road users. Similar to pedestrians. It is painful to wait for traffic lights... it's painful to walk to a pedestrian crossing... But it is the most efficient way to achieve the bigger goal the advantage of bumps especially on that stretch is that it allows a driver to focus and gives a pedestrian time to react, remember its not only pedestrians who are crossing that road who are hit, it also happens to guys on the sides when speeding cars lose control and roll out of the road
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:hardwood wrote:chemirocha wrote:hardwood wrote:
We understand that you need to race your blue subarus on that road to enjoy the power of your machines lakini safety of the villagers comes first.
We are talking about a road network that serves not only Kenya but the rest of East Africa. It is the height of hypocrisy to ignore the safety of other road users. We are not trying to imitate rally drivers. There are hundreds of bumps on that 950km road from mombasa to malaba. Why focus on only one bump? Why not those at mtito andei, salama, mlolongo, salgaa, timboroa, cheptiret, jua kali, kipkarren etc etc? I don't know why this bump issue is still alive, its clear that accident was caused by either a defective vehicle or a crazy driver, and compounded by some drivers who lack common courtesy on the road, actually I am with the resident who want more bumps put up on that stretch, how many minutes will a driver lose even after more bumps are erected 10/15 minutes. @sitaki_ujinga, the more the bumps, the less average speed for the journey...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:I think @hardwood is clouded by govt sycophancy. He cannot see anything outside that. I always argue my cases based on logic/facts/evidence while most you follow emotions and "what everybody else is saying". As @masukuma wiki always says, you cant argue against data/facts. After all the emotions cool down and people have ventilated, what remains are the facts.....and this applies to all cases - from the bumps to Trump. First, I think you know that nothing good is cheap. It's backward to always think cheap is sustainable. So govt needs to think longterm: foot bridges and tunnels at busy areas. Secondly, we need to change the mentality of our people. In order to do that, we should change ours then teach the rest. We cannot live by crossing the High ways any point you wish... We end up having to erect bumps all over the highway defeating the purpose of it being called a highway in the first place. You said, "Bumps are more effective since you can put several of them over a certain stretch unlike foot bridges where you can only put one." You see, since you cannot put bumps the whole stretch of the highway, similarly you can replace bumps in those areas with foot bridges. If a town has two points where speed bumps are important, then put a foot bridge there... Go back to the first point about cost. We need to abolish short cut mentality! This kind of mentality is what took our By Passes lying idle for 24 years. It took only Kibaki to make the hard decision.... What is the effectivity of erecting tunnels or foot bridges over a single carriageway where the separation of traffic is done by a single yellow line in the middle of the road? For this to work you will need to fence the road on both sides! Hatuna pesa kaa hiyo. The only practicable venture now is bumps. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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