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Williamson Tea
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Does anyone know what happened to the land uncertainty for WTK in Nandi?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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Horton wrote:Does anyone know what happened to the land uncertainty for WTK in Nandi? As of the AGM date... the drama is on-going. I expect the usual political posturing during the elections but this time around WTK will send its non-Kalenjin staff home and move the movable assets far away where the arsonists & thieves will not have access. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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VituVingiSana wrote:Horton wrote:Does anyone know what happened to the land uncertainty for WTK in Nandi? As of the AGM date... the drama is on-going. I expect the usual political posturing during the elections but this time around WTK will send its non-Kalenjin staff home and move the movable assets far away where the arsonists & thieves will not have access. Hope we aren't blindsided like in the capping of interest rates.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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MadDoc wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Horton wrote:Does anyone know what happened to the land uncertainty for WTK in Nandi? As of the AGM date... the drama is on-going. I expect the usual political posturing during the elections but this time around WTK will send its non-Kalenjin staff home and move the movable assets far away where the arsonists & thieves will not have access. Hope we aren't blindsided like in the capping of interest rates. Very sad where politics is interferring with business vs enabling it.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 10/25/2011 Posts: 67
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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kaimbaga2012 wrote:http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Tea-farmers-set-for-massive-windfall-after-Kenya-earns-Sh84bn/539550-3372292-n8sfuoz/index.
How will this impact on Williamson Tea Ernings This was already reflected in FY2016 results.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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kaimbaga2012 wrote:http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Tea-farmers-set-for-massive-windfall-after-Kenya-earns-Sh84bn/539550-3372292-n8sfuoz/index.
How will this impact on Williamson Tea Ernings Apr, May and June should be OK for WTK. The challenges with too much tea & lower prices will affect WTK July-Dec 2016 but WTK also spent considerable sums buying new, efficient machinery to reduce the cost of harvesting. Agricultural firms' profits are cyclical but as a long term investor, the pay-off of a well-mananged firm can be great! My views. I have some Kakuzi as well. No complaints. The biggest threat are the politicians as elections near. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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My take, land is a thorny issue to wtk. However, could someone explain to me if wtk divinded pay out is sustainable considering its higher than EPs. What's the implication to the shareholder wealth. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/7/2016 Posts: 79 Location: Home
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To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to.  The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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muandiwambeu wrote:My take, land is a thorny issue to wtk. However, could someone explain to me if wtk divinded pay out is sustainable considering its higher than EPs. What's the implication to the shareholder wealth. Dividends for FY2016 were paid out from the profit. For FY2015, they were paid from the cash reserves. The cash reserves as per 2016 were >1Bn. This was higher than 2015s. On shareholder wealth, i think it's unaffected. Maybe, VVS could shed some light on it.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/7/2016 Posts: 79 Location: Home
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MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to. The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance. FY 2012 - 820 million FY 2013 - 826 million FY 2014 - 712 million FY 2015 - Loss of 208 million FY 2016 - 705 million Your chart just confirms what I said. The highest profit was in 2013 and since then, the general trend is a decline. I said it wasn't growing...and those figures confirm my statement. This guys are giving out fat dividends because they have no better use for that money as evidenced by declining EPS. Your argument about cash reserves is stale because if they continue forking out fat dividends, they will soon run out of cash. To me, this stock is ideal to someone who has no need for massive capital gains, because there will be very little if the company doesn't grow its EPS. If this trend persists, I dont expect the share to ever cross the 500 mark even at the height of the bull market. It has to figure out how to grow its earnings. For dividend investors, this is a dream come true because the company can afford to pay the huge dividends for years.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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MadDoc wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:My take, land is a thorny issue to wtk. However, could someone explain to me if wtk divinded pay out is sustainable considering its higher than EPs. What's the implication to the shareholder wealth. Dividends for FY2016 were paid out from the profit. For FY2015, they were paid from the cash reserves. The cash reserves as per 2016 were >1Bn. This was higher than 2015s. On shareholder wealth, i think it's unaffected. Maybe, VVS could shed some light on it. Too bad for wtk shareholders. All am able to see is dwindling fortunes and deceptions too. Huge cash reserves as compared to other cashflow generating assets simply stinks and a nice niche for misappropriations. Eg paying fat dividend before slaughter. Solid core casshflow generating assets gurantees earnings, healthy books and growth. WTK may be in menopause stage. No wonder leases have expired and not renewed yet. Too hot for my take. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/7/2016 Posts: 79 Location: Home
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muandiwambeu wrote:MadDoc wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:My take, land is a thorny issue to wtk. However, could someone explain to me if wtk divinded pay out is sustainable considering its higher than EPs. What's the implication to the shareholder wealth. Dividends for FY2016 were paid out from the profit. For FY2015, they were paid from the cash reserves. The cash reserves as per 2016 were >1Bn. This was higher than 2015s. On shareholder wealth, i think it's unaffected. Maybe, VVS could shed some light on it. Too bad for wtk shareholders. All am able to see is dwindling fortunes and deceptions too. Huge cash reserves as compared to other cashflow generating assets simply stinks and a nice niche for misappropriations. Eg paying fat dividend before slaughter. Solid core casshflow generating assets gurantees earnings, healthy books and growth. WTK may be in menopause stage. No wonder leases have expired and not renewed yet. Too hot for my take. Exactly. If a company is not growing it's EPS, it is a junk stock as far as I am concerned. I would never invest in a company that has a declining EPS. I dont care how rosy the dividends are or how great their story is...a dying company is a dying company...and judging by the last half decade, there is a high chance that Williamson Tea peaked before it was listed and listing was just a way of transferring ownership when directors realized that there were no future growth prospects.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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Mkondoa Macho wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to. The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance. FY 2012 - 820 million FY 2013 - 826 million FY 2014 - 712 million FY 2015 - Loss of 208 million FY 2016 - 705 million Your chart just confirms what I said. The highest profit was in 2013 and since then, the general trend is a decline. I said it wasn't growing...and those figures confirm my statement. This guys are giving out fat dividends because they have no better use for that money as evidenced by declining EPS. Your argument about cash reserves is stale because if they continue forking out fat dividends, they will soon run out of cash. To me, this stock is ideal to someone who has no need for massive capital gains, because there will be very little if the company doesn't grow its EPS. If this trend persists, I dont expect the share to ever cross the 500 mark even at the height of the bull market. It has to figure out how to grow its earnings. For dividend investors, this is a dream come true because the company can afford to pay the huge dividends for years. They had a bonus issue in 2015. Capital gains were recorded there. The stock had a high of almost 400. That was from 250. My point may be stale, but it still stands. How can you determine the death of a company without considering macros? During that period, tea prices were high(in fact >3 dollars). In the last AGM, the company decided to divest more into the tea auctions. Previously, they had been involved in contracts with Unilever where price was predetermined. This change of heart could increase revenues. I agree it's a fantasy for dividend investors. That's why i'm in it. Lastly, kindly compare it with other agricultural companies listed in the NSE.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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muandiwambeu wrote:MadDoc wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:My take, land is a thorny issue to wtk. However, could someone explain to me if wtk divinded pay out is sustainable considering its higher than EPs. What's the implication to the shareholder wealth. Dividends for FY2016 were paid out from the profit. For FY2015, they were paid from the cash reserves. The cash reserves as per 2016 were >1Bn. This was higher than 2015s. On shareholder wealth, i think it's unaffected. Maybe, VVS could shed some light on it. Too bad for wtk shareholders. All am able to see is dwindling fortunes and deceptions too. Huge cash reserves as compared to other cashflow generating assets simply stinks and a nice niche for misappropriations. Eg paying fat dividend before slaughter. Solid core casshflow generating assets gurantees earnings, healthy books and growth. WTK may be in menopause stage. No wonder leases have expired and not renewed yet. Too hot for my take. Kindly get your facts right. The lease renewal is a political issue. Their cashflow generating assets aka tea is subject to world prices, the US dollar, weather etc.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to. The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance. FY 2012 - 820 million FY 2013 - 826 million FY 2014 - 712 million FY 2015 - Loss of 208 million FY 2016 - 705 million Your chart just confirms what I said. The highest profit was in 2013 and since then, the general trend is a decline. I said it wasn't growing...and those figures confirm my statement. This guys are giving out fat dividends because they have no better use for that money as evidenced by declining EPS. Your argument about cash reserves is stale because if they continue forking out fat dividends, they will soon run out of cash. To me, this stock is ideal to someone who has no need for massive capital gains, because there will be very little if the company doesn't grow its EPS. If this trend persists, I dont expect the share to ever cross the 500 mark even at the height of the bull market. It has to figure out how to grow its earnings. For dividend investors, this is a dream come true because the company can afford to pay the huge dividends for years. They had a bonus issue in 2015. Capital gains were recorded there. The stock had a high of almost 400. That was from 250. My point may be stale, but it still stands. How can you determine the death of a company without considering macros? During that period, tea prices were high(in fact >3 dollars). In the last AGM, the company decided to divest more into the tea auctions. Previously, they had been involved in contracts with Unilever where price was predetermined. This change of heart could increase revenues. I agree it's a fantasy for dividend investors. That's why i'm in it. Lastly, kindly compare it with other agricultural companies listed in the NSE. No need to compare a rotting maembe to another rotten avocado whether in or out side NSE. You could as well compare it with kq or paka five years down the line.  See post no. 1 in kq, why ignore thread and learn a thing. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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muandiwambeu wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to. The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance. FY 2012 - 820 million FY 2013 - 826 million FY 2014 - 712 million FY 2015 - Loss of 208 million FY 2016 - 705 million Your chart just confirms what I said. The highest profit was in 2013 and since then, the general trend is a decline. I said it wasn't growing...and those figures confirm my statement. This guys are giving out fat dividends because they have no better use for that money as evidenced by declining EPS. Your argument about cash reserves is stale because if they continue forking out fat dividends, they will soon run out of cash. To me, this stock is ideal to someone who has no need for massive capital gains, because there will be very little if the company doesn't grow its EPS. If this trend persists, I dont expect the share to ever cross the 500 mark even at the height of the bull market. It has to figure out how to grow its earnings. For dividend investors, this is a dream come true because the company can afford to pay the huge dividends for years. They had a bonus issue in 2015. Capital gains were recorded there. The stock had a high of almost 400. That was from 250. My point may be stale, but it still stands. How can you determine the death of a company without considering macros? During that period, tea prices were high(in fact >3 dollars). In the last AGM, the company decided to divest more into the tea auctions. Previously, they had been involved in contracts with Unilever where price was predetermined. This change of heart could increase revenues. I agree it's a fantasy for dividend investors. That's why i'm in it. Lastly, kindly compare it with other agricultural companies listed in the NSE. No need to compare a rotting maembe to another rotten avocado whether in or out side NSE. You could as well compare it with kq or paka five years down the line. See post no. 1 in kq, why ignore thread and learn a thing. I give up. I'll leave you to your own intransigence  For you keep looking solely at the decline in PAT, without even considering other factors. I would recommend you pick up 100 shares now. For in that time, the share price will have doubled.(Quadrupled if the lease is renewed-inclusive of dividends).
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/7/2016 Posts: 79 Location: Home
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MadDoc wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to. The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance. FY 2012 - 820 million FY 2013 - 826 million FY 2014 - 712 million FY 2015 - Loss of 208 million FY 2016 - 705 million Your chart just confirms what I said. The highest profit was in 2013 and since then, the general trend is a decline. I said it wasn't growing...and those figures confirm my statement. This guys are giving out fat dividends because they have no better use for that money as evidenced by declining EPS. Your argument about cash reserves is stale because if they continue forking out fat dividends, they will soon run out of cash. To me, this stock is ideal to someone who has no need for massive capital gains, because there will be very little if the company doesn't grow its EPS. If this trend persists, I dont expect the share to ever cross the 500 mark even at the height of the bull market. It has to figure out how to grow its earnings. For dividend investors, this is a dream come true because the company can afford to pay the huge dividends for years. They had a bonus issue in 2015. Capital gains were recorded there. The stock had a high of almost 400. That was from 250. My point may be stale, but it still stands. How can you determine the death of a company without considering macros? During that period, tea prices were high(in fact >3 dollars). In the last AGM, the company decided to divest more into the tea auctions. Previously, they had been involved in contracts with Unilever where price was predetermined. This change of heart could increase revenues. I agree it's a fantasy for dividend investors. That's why i'm in it. Lastly, kindly compare it with other agricultural companies listed in the NSE. No need to compare a rotting maembe to another rotten avocado whether in or out side NSE. You could as well compare it with kq or paka five years down the line. See post no. 1 in kq, why ignore thread and learn a thing. I give up. I'll leave you to your own intransigence For you keep looking solely at the decline in PAT, without even considering other factors. I would recommend you pick up 100 shares now. For in that time, the share price will have doubled.(Quadrupled if the lease is renewed-inclusive of dividends). A declining PAT for 5 years means that the company has reached menopause. You dont need to be a financial analyst to see that. Stop using excuses to justify your position and forget about macros. If a company is not performing, it isn't. No need to bury your head in the sand.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2015 Posts: 151
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Mkondoa Macho wrote:MadDoc wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:MadDoc wrote:Mkondoa Macho wrote:To me, WTK is a dead horse. Its EPS has been on a downward trend since 2011. The company is not growing and its earnings reduce every year. That is why it pays such hefty dividends to blind shareholders from this worrying trend. I challenge to to examine it's PAT since 2011 to the last financial year and be the judge. Plot a graph if you have to. The only thing in question is its lease on the land. If a company can afford to comfortably pay dividends, isn't that the sign of a healthy company? The said company also has low debt levels and a helluva cash reserve. The company has a book value per share of 385.xx. Its current price on the NSE is 170. http://markets.ft.com/da...t/financials?s=GWKL:NAI
Kindly go through this for next time I won't excuse your ignorance. FY 2012 - 820 million FY 2013 - 826 million FY 2014 - 712 million FY 2015 - Loss of 208 million FY 2016 - 705 million Your chart just confirms what I said. The highest profit was in 2013 and since then, the general trend is a decline. I said it wasn't growing...and those figures confirm my statement. This guys are giving out fat dividends because they have no better use for that money as evidenced by declining EPS. Your argument about cash reserves is stale because if they continue forking out fat dividends, they will soon run out of cash. To me, this stock is ideal to someone who has no need for massive capital gains, because there will be very little if the company doesn't grow its EPS. If this trend persists, I dont expect the share to ever cross the 500 mark even at the height of the bull market. It has to figure out how to grow its earnings. For dividend investors, this is a dream come true because the company can afford to pay the huge dividends for years. They had a bonus issue in 2015. Capital gains were recorded there. The stock had a high of almost 400. That was from 250. My point may be stale, but it still stands. How can you determine the death of a company without considering macros? During that period, tea prices were high(in fact >3 dollars). In the last AGM, the company decided to divest more into the tea auctions. Previously, they had been involved in contracts with Unilever where price was predetermined. This change of heart could increase revenues. I agree it's a fantasy for dividend investors. That's why i'm in it. Lastly, kindly compare it with other agricultural companies listed in the NSE. No need to compare a rotting maembe to another rotten avocado whether in or out side NSE. You could as well compare it with kq or paka five years down the line. See post no. 1 in kq, why ignore thread and learn a thing. I give up. I'll leave you to your own intransigence For you keep looking solely at the decline in PAT, without even considering other factors. I would recommend you pick up 100 shares now. For in that time, the share price will have doubled.(Quadrupled if the lease is renewed-inclusive of dividends). A declining PAT for 5 years means that the company has reached menopause. You dont need to be a financial analyst to see that. Stop using excuses to justify your position and forget about macros. If a company is not performing, it isn't. No need to bury your head in the sand. I have answered all your PAT questions in the previous post. I'd be happy if you could counter that. WTK is of solid management, attractive dividend yield. No cooking of books etc. If conservative investing is a crime, by all means cuff me!
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