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Law Capping interest rates
tom_boy
#1561 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:04:46 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Yowel wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Let me be counted among the pro rate cap hoi poloi. I still dont understand why rate cap is bad for business. The sooner banks get over their pity party , double down and get to work lending to those who deserve loans, the better it will be for all of us. No need having registered shylocks masquerading as banks. By June 2017, they will have seen the light and done away with their credit crunch games.

By the way, can someone explain to me slowly what interest rates have to do with weakening kenya shs against the dollar. What is the relationship.


First, refer to post #1522. Then ask questions.


@Yowel, kama huna jibu, dont expose your ignorance. Post #1522 does not answer my question. Let me give you another chance to answer the question. Go ahead, give it a shot, sio mtihani . . . nkt.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
quicksand
#1562 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:06:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Yowel wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
guru267 wrote:
We are slowly moving towards reversing this retarded law.

As I have been saying, was always going to happen. The longest UK can hold is up to slightly after the elections. Because the signing was politically motivated, he might just let the economy go to the dogs till after the election - what a high price for Kenyans to pay for some people to get votes!!

But this law doesn't see December 2017. Worst case scenario!!!



I like my loan statement now. My loan will be cleared by Dec 2017 so who cares!


Right now we are quick to think of ourselves and the advantage of the rate cap which is a good thing but looking at the bigger picture, when the economy is in shambles, this wont matter anymore, we shall all go/come home to roost.

Case in point, when a whole economy is in recession, everyone suffers a ripple effect from production, consumer spending, supply, demand, profits etc etc



I think banks are either playing crunch games or the whole ecosystem was overdue for a correction and these are the initial painful phases. Or both.
Either way, I firmly stand in the capped rates corner.
Let the economy run aground, if only to make a point. What would be folly is to give them free reign and expect them to regulate themselves -we have seen that movie before. I sympathize with those whose portfolios got the hair-dryer treatment, but the well being of Kenyans outstrips the profiteering of a few.
tom_boy
#1563 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:10:48 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Mainat wrote:
Maybe the quality in the forum has worsened.
Look around you, how many cutbacks have the banks recently announced? And this is a lean sector already! Where banks lead, others will follow. Look at EA Portland and they are selling products in a vibrant sector. Look at Nakumatt, where the banks have pulled funding lines.
Yes, a small prroprotion of existing "quality" borrowers (read MPs and cronies) get a short-term benefit, but the overall economy will take a proper hit.
Mambo baado


Nakumatt has expanded because shylock banks were willing to loan based on poorly done risk assessment. In return, Nakumatt has withheld payments to suppliers running to billions of shillings so as to meet interest payments. Suppliers are forced to borrow from same shylock banks to meet basic running expenses. Then someone tells me rate cap is the cause of Nakumatts problems. Give me a break.

The so called credit crunch is a manipulation by the banks, trying to cause organised chaos. They can only be the losers. The winners are those banks that will put in proper risk assessment policies and follow them.

Case in point, a bank has given me a mortgage on a property outside nairobi. Now, post rate caps, while attempting to refinance with another bank, bank 2 tells me it will be tricky because the property is outside Nairobi. Not my ability to repay, not value of the property vis a vis refinance sort, but, location of property. Thats nonsense in my opinion.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Mainat
#1564 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:13:47 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Tom-mboy, the proof of the pudding is in the eating

tom_boy wrote:
Mainat wrote:
Maybe the quality in the forum has worsened.
Look around you, how many cutbacks have the banks recently announced? And this is a lean sector already! Where banks lead, others will follow. Look at EA Portland and they are selling products in a vibrant sector. Look at Nakumatt, where the banks have pulled funding lines.
Yes, a small prroprotion of existing "quality" borrowers (read MPs and cronies) get a short-term benefit, but the overall economy will take a proper hit.
Mambo baado


Nakumatt has expanded because shylock banks were willing to loan based on poorly done risk assessment. In return, Nakumatt has withheld payments to suppliers running to billions of shillings so as to meet interest payments. Suppliers are forced to borrow from same shylock banks to meet basic running expenses. Then some economist with a degree tells me rate cap is the cause of Nakumatts problems. Give me a break.

Sehemu ndio nyumba
murchr
#1565 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:21:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
MaichBlack
#1566 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:41:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
quicksand wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
guru267 wrote:
We are slowly moving towards reversing this retarded law.

As I have been saying, was always going to happen. The longest UK can hold is up to slightly after the elections. Because the signing was politically motivated, he might just let the economy go to the dogs till after the election - what a high price for Kenyans to pay for some people to get votes!!

But this law doesn't see December 2017. Worst case scenario!!!

UK can't unilaterally void the law. An MP has to introduce a motion to repeal it or scrap it...I will want to see that usually heavily indebted house vote to let banks swing their huge loans back to the mid-twenties interest rate mark, for curiosity's sake.

These fellows will vote for anything provided they get something in return. Swing them some money with whatever title you want to give it and some will even vote to sell their own mothers. And in any case, the MPs themselves and their businesses will be feeling the credit crunch themselves!!! Talk to any bank or MP/Governor/Senator/County Rep right now!!! They are not being given long term loans despite their fat salaries!

If that fails, then as we have been warning, CBK will start getting monetary instructions from the executive.

The easiest is to have them raise rates and allow banks to come up with ridiculous conditions for an account to earn interest. like withdrawing only once a year - effectively turning all interest earning accounts to fixed accounts!!! Simple because some banks are already limiting to one withdrawal per quarter!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Mainat
#1567 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:44:59 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
To be honest, the pro and anti-cap debate is not new and is as old as economics theory has been around. What I know is this. A bank’s primary role in an economy is to take credit risk in exchange for interest rate payment. Unless you as GoK think you have a better understanding of credit risk, you should stay out.
Even an idiot, can see what uhuruto did was a populist move which has no in place in the proper functioning of an economy.
Sehemu ndio nyumba
MaichBlack
#1568 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:51:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
maka wrote:
UK should just go home...go drink his liquor in peace...running a country is proving to be a hard task.

Running a country needs experience at different levels of Government. That is why Kibaki was best for Kenya and changed the fortunes of the country for the better.

Unfortunately we don't have such a person currently (in power or in waiting/opposition).

The US will also find this out soon. Electing someone who has never even been a kajora as their president!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#1569 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:58:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Mainat wrote:
To be honest, the pro and anti-cap debate is not new and is as old as economics theory has been around. What I know is this. A bank’s primary role in an economy is to take credit risk in exchange for interest rate payment. Unless you as GoK think you have a better understanding of credit risk, you should stay out.
Even an idiot, can see what uhuruto did was a populist move which has no in place in the proper functioning of an economy.

And none of their economics/finance/treasury guys supported them. They ALL actually opposed the idea!!! The decision was as political as they come.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#1570 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 11:00:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Mainat
#1571 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 11:07:22 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.

It makes me sad to read some of the things apparently educated people write. Ni kama kusoma ni kunywa maji..
Sehemu ndio nyumba
murchr
#1572 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 11:41:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Mainat wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.

It makes me sad to read some of the things apparently educated people write. Ni kama kusoma ni kunywa maji..


It's going to be really tight in 2017, you're all better be prepaired
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kawi254
#1573 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 11:57:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2015
Posts: 467
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Mainat wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.

It makes me sad to read some of the things apparently educated people write. Ni kama kusoma ni kunywa maji..


It's going to be really tight in 2017, you're all better be prepaired


When Uhuru was signing the bill He did comment it will be reviewed after 2 years. Just after you have voted..Applause Applause Applause ...the rate limit cap will be lifted in 2018.
MaichBlack
#1574 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:24:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Mainat wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.

It makes me sad to read some of the things apparently educated people write. Ni kama kusoma ni kunywa maji..

Ile masomo inasomwa siku hizi sio masomo. Most fellows just cram and/or take mwakenyas to the exam room.

Don't be surprised to meet a fellow with a sparkling degree and nothing between his ears!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Yowel
#1575 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:29:08 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/14/2016
Posts: 25
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
Yowel wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Let me be counted among the pro rate cap hoi poloi. I still dont understand why rate cap is bad for business. The sooner banks get over their pity party , double down and get to work lending to those who deserve loans, the better it will be for all of us. No need having registered shylocks masquerading as banks. By June 2017, they will have seen the light and done away with their credit crunch games.

By the way, can someone explain to me slowly what interest rates have to do with weakening kenya shs against the dollar. What is the relationship.


First, refer to post #1522. Then ask questions.


@Yowel, kama huna jibu, dont expose your ignorance. Post #1522 does not answer my question. Let me give you another chance to answer the question. Go ahead, give it a shot, sio mtihani . . . nkt.


@tom_boy, kuwa mpole bwana.

Currency exchange rates are determined by a number of factors e.g. interest rates, current account on balance of payments, economic growth, relative inflation rate etc. Now looking at interest rates in isolation: if Kenyan interest rates rise, it shall become more attractive to save in Kes, thus a demand for the currency thus appreciation, but the KES is not a major currency and no one will dare do what ive explained considering the fragile nature of third world countries where savings could be wiped out in a flash.

Now, answering your question based on the current situation: most emerging economies have borrowed in USD, i.e. both governments (read Eurobond in kenya, Nigeria, Ghana etc) and even the private sector. When the US raise their interest rates, investments and funds shall start trickling back at the expense of other countries, demand for the dollar shall rise and the USD shall appreciate and other currencies shall depreciate (KES etc).

These shall be the effects:

1) investment shall be withdrawn by foreigners, a capital outflow which shall affect key investments both in the private sector and public sector.

2) repayment of debt shall be more expensive since the govt source of revenue is kes and repayment of debt is in usd, thus it shall take more kes to buy the same dollar. Thus the govt shall borrow more, still in Kes to meet the obligation, this shall cause interest rates to rise and the debt burden to increase even further. (For Kenya this is dangerous considering our budget deficit stands at 9.3% of GDP). For the government to protect the KES it needs to by either buy more dollars or raising interest rates higher crowding out funding for the private sector.

Yowel
#1576 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 12:32:18 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/14/2016
Posts: 25
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.


i concur. the economy humbles people, big and small.
kaka2za
#1577 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 2:09:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
Yowel wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.


i concur. the economy humbles people, big and small.


Small people are already humbled.
Let's enjoy the small picture before the prophecy of the Wazua geniuses becomes reality.
For now,we, daft people are happy!
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
obiero
#1578 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 4:31:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,554
Location: nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
Yowel wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.


i concur. the economy humbles people, big and small.


Small people are already humbled.
Let's enjoy the small picture before the prophecy of the Wazua geniuses becomes reality.
For now,we, daft people are happy!

As a leading economic researcher in Africa.. I confirm and repeat, economically speaking the bill will make Kenya great again

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
mlennyma
#1579 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 4:38:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
obiero wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Yowel wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
@Mainat, the reality will only sink in when the economy takes his job

True. Typical Kenyan mentality.


i concur. the economy humbles people, big and small.


Small people are already humbled.
Let's enjoy the small picture before the prophecy of the Wazua geniuses becomes reality.
For now,we, daft people are happy!

As a leading economic researcher in Africa.. I confirm and repeat, economically speaking the bill will make Kenya great again

Yes trump,Iam buying banks next year when reality sinks.I expect a mean dividend on bank stocks this year
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
MaichBlack
#1580 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2016 4:45:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
MaichBlack wrote:
maka wrote:
UK should just go home...go drink his liquor in peace...running a country is proving to be a hard task.

Running a country needs experience at different levels of Government. That is why Kibaki was best for Kenya and changed the fortunes of the country for the better.

Unfortunately we don't have such a person currently (in power or in waiting/opposition).

The US will also find this out soon. Electing someone who has never even been a kajora as their president!!


Welcome to Kenya - Shida tupu!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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