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Safaricom should sue CCK..period.
masukuma
#41 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:03:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
the world is not a fair place, just ask Microsoft who were penalized for innovation. when you grow to big attacks will be launched on you. What safCON should do is fight this in court (for as long as it can) just as Microsoft did.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Jaguar
#42 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:04:10 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/7/2007
Posts: 263
Location: humu humu
@vvs, do you see them being able to handle within network traffic if they charge 4/ within network? The thought is good though, i even suggest 3/ within network and 5/ cross network. But they cannot do this overnight, plus they have to get approval from cck. The lower charges will also affect their bottom line. When they used to charge 30/ peak and 11/ offpeak is when they used to make 16B+ profit. I pray they go to court so that they get tamed for good. (dislaimer: i am neither a shareholder nor a subscriber)
VituVingiSana
#43 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:04:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
Chaka wrote:
May be supernormal profits means 'more than the combined profits' of the other operators ?

Well; what would you expect of a player who has over 70% market-share?

Are we going to punish SCOM for the mistakes [read, losses] made by Zain, Orange and Yu?

This reminds me of the fundamental error of giving scholarships to "children from poor families", but I digress. We can discuss that at another time....

In Kenya, we want to subsidize the FAILURES... Sometimes, you have to let them DIE...

Creative Destruction by Josef Schumpeter is worth reading...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#44 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:09:25 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
My worry is more on what precedence this action is setting. Who will be next? Scangroup? May be Kenol Kobil? Nation? Citizen? Tuskys? Equity? Bamburi? Bidco? KQ? All companies will be afraid of growth and market leadership if it's termed unfair to be ahead of your lax and inefficient competitors.




AMEN...

Kenol Kobil has fought off Shell, Total, etc to emerge as #1 in Kenya thru ORGANIC growth. Not only in Kenya but also a power in regional East Africa. Will the idiots curb their success?

Nation has grown organically. Did you know Standard used to be #1? KTN was #1? Nation was DENIED broadcast licenses by the corrupt idiot danny moi YET Nation triumphed to be #1.

Nakumatt (& Tuskys) have handily beaten the then #1 Uchumi (dominant in 80s & 90s).

Bidco was a small player against Unilever/EA Industries. Success was hard but earned.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#45 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:14:55 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
I use YU (6/- across ALL networks)... so if Kenyans are idiots not to move over to a 'cheaper' network... why blame Safaricom???

IMHO, someone at CCK was told that safcom will not send him/her extra spending money...

BTW, I wud be curious to find out what network/carrier the employees of CCK used...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
SUN RAYS
#46 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:17:12 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/5/2010
Posts: 3
Location: nairobi
I do not agree with CCK on this matter,Safaricom has connected well with the Kenyan people.Is worth its existence and profits.Look at simple statistics like employing over 2500 Kenyans directly,it also indirectly employs another alone million through dealerships, m-pesa agency and through the many subcontractors and suppliers.M-pesa alone has improved lives in kenya and many of us can now send the small cash available to our forks in the village at barely no cost. I take the opportunity to castigate the regulator for overstepping mandate and congratulate safaricom for their good work.all the 860,000 investors like me and the 17 million customers are behind you in every way.
Njung'e
#47 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:20:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Sunray,
17 Million customers??...aiiiH!!....If CCK can control or even lower the costs of making calls ,how would "17 Million Kenyans" be so jinga to stand behind Safcom?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
chepkel
#48 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:28:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
Please give me an example of anti competitive practices. I asl have a problem with the supernormal profits. What is supernormal profits???
I really dont understand this wordy act, does it mean that they do not want a player to dominate a market????
I think it is absolutely unfair. There are many options to choose from and if people decide to leave the cheaper ones and go for the most expensive brand then the other players get jealous!!!!????
The market should be left to regulate itself with very minimal interference from the Government.
Please tell me has safaricom placed any entry barriers for other telecommunication operators???
They shouldhave called this act "The war to bring safaricom down act"
Mkimwa
#49 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:46:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2008
Posts: 380
The market is not responding to all this anti-competitive nonsense. It remains as noise. Share price stable at 5.8 for the last 2 or so weeks.
Gatheuzi
#50 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:04:01 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
Just a thought - what doest Zain/Yu/Orange plan to do should any of them get past 25% market share? Do they realize they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
mlefu
#51 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:10:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1,680
Location: nairobi
safaricom is a consistent company..i have tried to move to other providers when they introduce "loss making" tariffs but eventually i run back to my safaricom...what the small players need to do is increase their tariffs, make profit to avoid having to contribute to pay for an advertLaughing out loudly , pay their staff and have enough to finance an idea if at all they ever come-up with one. if the french cant make profits....BoltApplause , if Pain cant make profits....BoltApplause ..i still don't know how YU operates.
the small operators are way too cheap to make profits..orange 1 bob p/m is just plain stupidity.
truly Kenyan..niko na safaricom
AmHere
#52 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:23:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 93
masukuma wrote:
the world is not a fair place, just ask Microsoft who were penalized for innovation. when you grow to big attacks will be launched on you. What safCON should do is fight this in court (for as long as it can) just as Microsoft did.


Microsoft had to pay Euro 1.5B in penalties and still eventually toed the line.
mkatenusu
#53 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:30:01 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 4
Location: kenya
@mlefu, if you are hopping to buy a plot with profits from safaricom shares forget it. Stick to selling second hand tyers
Djinn
#54 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:31:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@mlefu et al siding with Safaricom (and please excuse me for not reading through the many posts) but CCK is right. I suspect some (investors in SCOM sahres) are coming from the point of view that the operator will be hard hit thus affecting their investments.

However, CCK (and the smaller operators) have a valid point. Its no more different than the anti-trust suits leveled against against Microsoft in some countries.

1 - Safaricom owing to disproportionate interconnection tariffs, knowing that it holds 80% market share, LOCKS in its subscribers. lets forget about the issue of wanting to retain your same number - look beyond that. Look at your address book - nine out of 10 numbers are Safaricom numbers - so you chose to stay because should you move - it will cost more to call nine out of 10 Safaricom numbers.

2 - Cross subsidies - given that it has 80% of the voice market, it can use that as an advantage to offer extremely low data rates, making it uncompetitive (and sometimes financial impossible) for other operators to offer even the same prices.

3 - This part is not really covered in this new piece of legislation but has to do with consumer protection (and the reason we need mobile number portability) - quality of service vis a vis prices charged. SCOM has raked in millions by offering mediocre service - no more different than the lucrative matatu sector that makes billions yet thrives most of the time outside the confines of exiting laws (including the constitution when it comes to your rights as a consumer, a human being, etc).

I'd like to ask the SCOM users a few questions

1 - Does Super Ongea really work? Whats the lowest rate you have enjoyed during your normal usage hours (I do not mean at 3am on Monday)
2 - For prepaid - can you dial 100 and get though? SCOM said they had opened up a state of the art call centre - did they really?
3 - Quality of service (and this has to do both with Super Ongea Tariff and cross subsidies) - the see-saw tariff is meant to let users enjoy a lower tariff when the network is not so congested - as it were, your answer to #1 itself should tell you the network is constantly congested therefore, quality of service remains low.

My two zloties


Djinn
#55 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:55:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
mukiha wrote:
Two fundamental points are being missed:
1] Telecommunications are not a basic human right! They are neither a matter of life and death. Thus consumers of the service do not need price protection. They can vote with their feet by simply choosing to stay without the service!

2] Safaricom was the THIRD telephone company to enter the Kenyan market [after Telkom and Kencell]. They fought a very serious battle for marketshare and in three years time the took position 1. After that they did not relax and celebrate - no, they continued fighting and now are the undisputed market leader with about double what all the other players have [combined!!].

SCOM did not get to that position as a result of government protection [as is the case with KenGen, for example]. They faught an open battle and won. The losers, especially Telkom and Zain, cannot now wake up and start crying. If they think the battle is too tough, they should just close shop and go home. Isn't that what Castle, Spreme, Barnnets, Stutterfords etc did?


2) It was not technically the third - it existed as a mobile subsidiary of Telkom kenya (they were based at Extelecoms House, Haile Sellasie). They had SOME market share abt 9000 subscribers as of the time Kencell were licenced. THE KCA of 1998 paved way for the commercialisation of TKL.

No government protection ? Hmmm....we should all recall that mysterious 5% and also that CCK has not had teeth for quite a while, esp under certain DG's who I will not name but who were as straight as mosquito coils. No, pls Mukiha do NOT say SCOM has not been sheltered. Don't go there!
AmHere
#56 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:04:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 93
AmHere wrote:
Microsoft had to pay Euro 1.5B in penalties and still eventually toed the line.


And they are still making good profits and have maintained market dominance. I dont think you should have a free market where monitoring of anti-competitive business practices is absent.
mukiha
#57 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:18:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
I can never understand why people stick to SCOM for voice - it has always been the most expensive (since inception) and most unreliable service provider (even worse than the old Telkom on some counts, e.g., network failures and call centre response times).

@djinn: Protection? Lets go there: give specific instances.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mlefu
#58 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:19:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1,680
Location: nairobi
safaricom is the largest listed company, they make profits because they offer services that are appreciated by 17+ million kenyans, a scenario where the small "loss making "operators force the rules and are effected, safcom profits dropsSad ..the name might be a junk stock..let me add..a junk stock that can "junk" the entire NSE..

checking call rates in other countries and surely none operates as unprofessional as our small players.
Manja Investor
#59 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:53:34 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 87
Truth be told _ Mukiha,etal Safcom has the best in terms of customer service.And these restrictions the small anti- innovative/creative palyers want introduced are not fair.

Even though introduced safcom will still make profits and they still will make loses!!

To hell with them.I am a proud safcom shareholder and a happy customer for that matter
mukiha
#60 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 11:08:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@Manja: I am a SCOM shareholder. Wouldn't accept Zain/Orange/Yu shares even if they were offered free of charge [who wants worthless entries in the CDCS statement?]

However, I use Zain voice, Orange internet and SCOM money transfer. I find SCOM voice and data too expensive. I gave a dormant Yu connection - cheap but limited coverage [ama wame-improve?]

BTW: I DO NOT support the new rules.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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