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fundamental investment
astute
#1 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 10:17:51 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 101
Location: Nairobi
fundamental or value investment is what is advocated for long term investors...it entails proper understanding of Financial Statements..this is what Warren Buffet uses....How many pple in Wazua use this strategy...does it work 4 u guyz???
guru267
#2 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 10:28:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@astute I use fundamental analysis all the time and it works like a charm (not to toot my own horn)....
for a long term investor the balance sheet analysis is the most important of the financial statements to pick cheap babies in the market
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mukiha
#3 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 10:37:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
astute wrote:
fundamental or value investment is what is advocated for long term investors...it entails proper understanding of Financial Statements..

What does this mean - exactly & in simple language?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
the deal
#4 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 10:44:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@ mukiha hehehe i dont know...maybe picking up cfcstanbic @ below 50 bob...
guru267
#5 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 10:49:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
astute wrote:
fundamental or value investment is what is advocated for long term investors...it entails proper understanding of Financial Statements..

What does this mean - exactly & in simple language?


@mukiha value investment means buying cheap stocks that are mispriced by the market by analysing their financials
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mukiha
#6 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 11:02:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
guru267 wrote:
mukiha wrote:
astute wrote:
fundamental or value investment is what is advocated for long term investors...it entails proper understanding of Financial Statements..

What does this mean - exactly & in simple language?


@mukiha value investment means buying cheap stocks that are mispriced by the market by analysing their financials

And how do you go about that..."analysing their financials"?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
guru267
#7 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 11:33:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
And how do you go about that..."analysing their financials"?


@mukiha are you sure you dont know this??? one gets all the financial information from for example the balance sheet and comes up with the ratios for example debt to equity ratio, price to book value ratio, and then gauge these ratios according to what the market considers cheap or expensive...

A case in point for a good value investment can be unga group... this stock is EXTREMELY CHEAP at the moment if one uses fundamental analysis of its balance sheet or income statement to value its stock... i think it is seriously being mispriced by the market because of its volatile earnings and no dividend policy it has being pursuing....

if one of these variables changes then you can/will expect to see a major price movement on a counter trading with such un heard of ratios
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mukiha
#8 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 11:56:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
guru267 wrote:
mukiha wrote:
And how do you go about that..."analysing their financials"?


@mukiha are you sure you dont know this??? one gets all the financial information from for example the balance sheet and comes up with the ratios for example debt to equity ratio, price to book value ratio, and then gauge these ratios according to what the market considers cheap or expensive...

SO, what values of these ratios does the NSE "consider cheap"?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
kenstat
#9 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:05:48 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Tundra
guru267 wrote:
@astute I use fundamental analysis all the time and it works like a charm (not to toot my own horn)....
for a long term investor the balance sheet analysis is the most important of the financial statements to pick cheap babies in the market


You cannot truely value a stock by simly using the balance sheet. In fact the balance sheet is the least important of the three statements in terms of information. The balance sheet will capture the inflows and outflows into the business lakini there are various ways ala enron companys use to keep important information from the raia.

Look at the income statement to see if the company is producing profits. Then look at the cashflow statement to see if the have liquid cash. This will also tell you the source of the cash. If it's from operations, thats great. If it from investing activities, there maybe issues. For example, KQs cash should come mostly from selling tickets, not selling old planes.

At the end of the day, you have to discount free cash flows to the present to get the intrinsic value of the stock. Then compare that to what the market value of the stock is. BUT, unfortunately for a young market like ours, we don't all have the same information. You may do all this analysis, buy a stock based on sound judgement but we know the regulators sleep on the job, and some relevent information will come to light rendering all your analysis useless kabisa.
guru267
#10 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:22:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
SO, what values of these ratios does the NSE "consider cheap"?


@mukiha we all know how inefficient the NSE operates because of the serious lack of flow of information and very narrow choice of stock so its hard to gauge what the NSE calls cheap or expensive....

in my books price to book value of less than 1 is cheap for a stock since one is buying at less than the intrinsic value of the company...

debt to equity of less than 0.5 can make it cheap since debt is fairly manageable...

P/E of 8 or less since this leaves room for little downside risks but also alot of room for high upside returns..

a stock can also be cheap if dividend yield is higher than the inflation rate...

Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mukiha
#11 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:26:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@kenstat:
Since 1954; is that young?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
ProverB
#12 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:29:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
Benjamin Graham, author of Intelligent Investor, defines an investment activity as one, which upon thorough analysis promises safety of the principle invested as well as an adequate return on that investment...

A basic assumption made here is that you did not become a shareholder to a company by chance but by an intelligent investment decision.

If that is the case, then basic ability to understand and interpret financial reports is of paramount significance to your success as an investor in the stock market...
smile
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
guru267
#13 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:31:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@kenstat i find it hard to agree with you about the income statement and cash flow statement being more important than the balance sheet when making long term investments

although the cashflow and income statement are also important in decision making, they can seriously change even within a year as a result change in economic situation or events whereas the balance sheet gives a long term picture of business operations and sustainabilty...

in short the cashflow and income statements are ideal for short term investors but they are exposed to too many variables for me to use them extensively to gauge a company's long term perfomance...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mukiha
#14 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:33:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
guru267 wrote:
mukiha wrote:
SO, what values of these ratios does the NSE "consider cheap"?


@mukiha we all know how inefficient the NSE operates because of the serious lack of flow of information and very narrow choice of stock so its hard to gauge what the NSE calls cheap or expensive....

What do you mean by "how inefficient the NSE operates because of the serious lack of flow of information"

Aren't the listed companies required to release financial information on a strict frequency and by strict deadlines? And then the info is published by NSE immediately?

Where does the "lack of flow of info" come in?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#15 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:39:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Financial statements are about the past, not the future. How does one assess the future?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
ProverB
#16 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:50:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
mukiha wrote:
Financial statements are about the past, not the future. How does one assess the future?



no one can..you just trust the management's keeps on doing a gud job..plus benefit of momentum of company's performance into the future...
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
guru267
#17 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:53:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
Where does the "lack of flow of info" come in?


i mean lack of flow where mostly only people in Nairobi can afford to acces this information you are talking about and the more than half who have access to the information can't interpret it... hence most investing is done on an emotional basis or love for a certain company or simply rumours....

Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
sheep
#18 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:55:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
common sense carries the day as the best measure of value investing.Too much figures and studies will make u underperform,just buy sensibly and avoid paying too much and buying hype stocks.Remember to buy in fluctuations and practise margin of safety(diversification) as ben graham said.Utashangaa what type of analysis people talk of coz u will outperform them.

my two cendis

The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
guru267
#19 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 12:59:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
Financial statements are about the past, not the future. How does one assess the future?


you are exactly right about financial statements reflecting the past... the only one with access to some future aspects is the balance sheet....

Accounts Payable: reflects future costs of the firm
Accounts receivable: reflects future income of the firm
Long term liabilities: reflects future interest and principal payments the firm has to make

Just an example...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mukiha
#20 Posted : Monday, May 03, 2010 1:04:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
guru267 wrote:
mukiha wrote:
Where does the "lack of flow of info" come in?


i mean lack of flow where mostly only people in Nairobi can afford to acces this information you are talking about and the more than half who have access to the information can't interpret it... hence most investing is done on an emotional basis or love for a certain company or simply rumours....


If the information is available at NSE, then it is available at brokers' offices. It is also published in the national press [readership approx 3m].

To buy shares, one needs to go to the broker, many have the info in the waiting rooms, so the is no excuse of lack of info.

Regarding inability to interpret the info; what can the NSE do to educate prospective investors?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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