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Dad... I love you
masukuma
#41 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2016 6:06:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:

I mean crying hovyo, hovyo. And breaking your leg while running away from a "ghost" on the road. And taking people's money when they sent you by mistake on Mpesa. How is that raising a responsible man? To me this is raising a mjambazi

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly as usual - i don't need to explain myself to you. I don't just do things because others expect me to. hata sijui hiyo story ya kulia " hovyo, hovyo" ilitoka wapi... but if it makes you happy - continue believing that i cry "hovyo, hovyo". The ghost thing was in good humor <-- you must be fun at parties... you explaining the obvious. I am guessing you also believe my car can speak to me in kyuk. On Kurudisha pesa.... hapo hakuna sori... guilty as charged - someone must remind society that a fool and his money are soon parted....
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#42 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2016 6:19:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

I mean crying hovyo, hovyo. And breaking your leg while running away from a "ghost" on the road. And taking people's money when they sent you by mistake on Mpesa. How is that raising a responsible man? To me this is raising a mjambazi

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly as usual - i don't need to explain myself to you. I don't just do things because others expect me to. hata sijui hiyo story ya kulia " hovyo, hovyo" ilitoka wapi... but if it makes you happy - continue believing that i cry "hovyo, hovyo". The ghost thing was in good humor <-- you must be fun at parties... you explaining the obvious. I am guessing you also believe my car can speak to me in kyuk. On Kurudisha pesa.... hapo hakuna sori... guilty as charged - someone must remind society that a fool and his money are soon parted....

That's my point exactly. Contradictions in your life... Responsibility and taking somebody's money sent by mistake!
masukuma wrote:
...Males and Men are not synonymous. Men make Men... Men are not weeds. No. 1 thing about being a man is RESPONSIBILITY. That is our culture... dodging that breeds irresponsible men and I agree - Men respond to Respect but that is not the only thing they respond to... it's primary but not the only thing
masukuma
#43 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2016 6:21:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@alph - actually - the very things I say i will do to spare my life are exactly the things most of you will do to spare yours... I am just courageous enough to admit it!! umelala ndani mara ngapi sababu ya "kujua rights zako"? or fighting for your rights? if not - you are just a brave keyboard warrior.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#44 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2016 6:28:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
@alph - actually - the very things I say i will do to spare my life are exactly the things most of you will do to spare yours... I am just courageous enough to admit it!! umelala ndani mara ngapi sababu ya "kujua rights zako"? or fighting for your rights? if not - you are just a brave keyboard warrior.

How is taking somebody money who sent you by mistake "being responsible"? Is this what you plan to teach your son to be a man? If this is how you were raised, please do not pass this trait to your son. That's not being a man... being a man is not necessarily all about physique. It's character.
masukuma
#45 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2016 6:30:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

I mean crying hovyo, hovyo. And breaking your leg while running away from a "ghost" on the road. And taking people's money when they sent you by mistake on Mpesa. How is that raising a responsible man? To me this is raising a mjambazi

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly as usual - i don't need to explain myself to you. I don't just do things because others expect me to. hata sijui hiyo story ya kulia " hovyo, hovyo" ilitoka wapi... but if it makes you happy - continue believing that i cry "hovyo, hovyo". The ghost thing was in good humor <-- you must be fun at parties... you explaining the obvious. I am guessing you also believe my car can speak to me in kyuk. On Kurudisha pesa.... hapo hakuna sori... guilty as charged - someone must remind society that a fool and his money are soon parted....

That's my point exactly. Contradictions in your life... Responsibility and taking somebody's money sent by mistake!
masukuma wrote:
...Males and Men are not synonymous. Men make Men... Men are not weeds. No. 1 thing about being a man is RESPONSIBILITY. That is our culture... dodging that breeds irresponsible men and I agree - Men respond to Respect but that is not the only thing they respond to... it's primary but not the only thing

yeah... sioni conflict... irresponsibility is not doing what is my duty... not correcting other people's mistakes - hiyo inaitwa charity... you need to appeal to my good side for you to get that. Taking care of my family <-- that is responsility. Doing a job i have signed to do <--- responsibility. Doing things for others outside that circle.. .CHARITY....
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Kusadikika
#46 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2016 7:54:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703
Teaching your children. People use this phrase very often and the assumption is that it is a good thing. What does it mean, to teach your children?? How would you do it??
AlphDoti
#47 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:14:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Kusadikika wrote:
Teaching your children. People use this phrase very often and the assumption is that it is a good thing. What does it mean, to teach your children?? How would you do it??

If we take just the boy & girl category of children, then you realize they are different: physically different, psychologically different. Because of this difference, you would teach all everything about life: work, ethics, morals, health, hygiene etc then based on their difference, you teach each one specifics about themselves for example when it comes to teenage each have their own unique challenges. Then also because of physical difference, each one of them is more suited (not necessarily exclusive) to some roles which he or she can excel better than the other, for example the woman will learn about being a good mother and the man how to be a good father. Difference roles does not mean discrimination, rather it means doing what you do better and when combined it produces the better whole. So teach female how to be a good woman, and the male how to be a good man.
AlphDoti
#48 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:28:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
So give an example, although I taught both the boy and the girl to work, i also made it clear to the boy that yes your sister can do, but if there is something heavy and you are there, then you should take it yourself. For example: assume there are loads outside in the car, a 25kg bag of rice, 10kg bag of sugar, etc... If i sent my son and my daughter to go fetch the items, and let's say by chance my son reached the car first and picked the 10kg bag, that leaves my daughter with 25kg bag... if my son came and said yeah this is equality, then I would slap him on the face! Given the situation, he is supposed to pick the heavier load. Common sense: he has bigger muscles. My daughter can compensate by doing something else e.g. help my wife to set the table. This is equity, sharing of roles.

Another example: If you want to slaughter a bull, you would better ask the son to come and help you put down the bull. It is common sense that your daughter is better suited to do something else away from the bull...

So this is how you teach your kids.
masukuma
#49 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:34:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
Kusadikika wrote:
Teaching your children. People use this phrase very often and the assumption is that it is a good thing. What does it mean, to teach your children?? How would you do it??

If we take just the boy & girl category of children, then you realize they are different: physically different, psychologically different. Because of this difference, you would teach all everything about life: work, ethics, morals, health, hygiene etc then based on their difference, you teach each one specifics about themselves for example when it comes to teenage each have their own unique challenges. Then also because of physical difference, each one of them is more suited (not necessarily exclusive) to some roles which he or she can excel better than the other, for example the woman will learn about being a good mother and the man how to be a good father. Difference roles does not mean discrimination, rather it means doing what you do better and when combined it produces the better whole. So teach female how to be a good woman, and the male how to be a good man.

that's the crux of the matter isn't it? What a "good man" and what makes "good woman"? as Mdomo baggy asks "himself and ask other selves what constitutes a hundred percent female being what is a good woman?"
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#50 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:45:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Kusadikika wrote:
Teaching your children. People use this phrase very often and the assumption is that it is a good thing. What does it mean, to teach your children?? How would you do it??

If we take just the boy & girl category of children, then you realize they are different: physically different, psychologically different. Because of this difference, you would teach all everything about life: work, ethics, morals, health, hygiene etc then based on their difference, you teach each one specifics about themselves for example when it comes to teenage each have their own unique challenges. Then also because of physical difference, each one of them is more suited (not necessarily exclusive) to some roles which he or she can excel better than the other, for example the woman will learn about being a good mother and the man how to be a good father. Difference roles does not mean discrimination, rather it means doing what you do better and when combined it produces the better whole. So teach female how to be a good woman, and the male how to be a good man.

that's the crux of the matter isn't it? What a "good man" and what makes "good woman"? as Mdomo baggy asks "himself and ask other selves what constitutes a hundred percent female being what is a good woman?"

I guess your question has been answered by my post #48

A good man knows his role given a circumstance. And a good woman also knows her role given a circumstance. It is not about competition, but role taking that produces the best whole... in an equitable manner, not equal manner, coz male and female are not same.

I hope it is clearer now?
masukuma
#51 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:57:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:

I guess your question has been answered by my post #48

A good man knows his role given a circumstance. And a good woman also knows her role given a circumstance. It is not about competition, but role taking that produces the best whole... in an equitable manner, not equal manner, coz male and female are not same.

I hope it is clearer now?

My question alludes to the relativity of the whole matter - your answer is what YOU consider a good woman/man - it's clearer to me what you consider a good woman/man but unclear if there is a universal definition of such a person that all will agree with.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#52 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 11:24:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

I guess your question has been answered by my post #48

A good man knows his role given a circumstance. And a good woman also knows her role given a circumstance. It is not about competition, but role taking that produces the best whole... in an equitable manner, not equal manner, coz male and female are not same.

I hope it is clearer now?

My question alludes to the relativity of the whole matter - your answer is what YOU consider a good woman/man - it's clearer to me what you consider a good woman/man but unclear if there is a universal definition of such a person that all will agree with.

I believe we have "universal" definition of "good" in our English dictionaries.

Definition good
ɡo͝od/
adjective
1. to be desired or approved of.
"we live at peace with each other, which is good"
synonyms: healthy, fine, sound, tip-top, hale and hearty, fit, robust, sturdy, strong, vigorous More

2. having the qualities required for a particular role. "the schools here are good", "this is a good month for planting seeds". synonyms: fine, superior, quality;

3. that which is morally right; righteousness.
"a mysterious balance of good and evil". "her father was a good man".
(a). Showing kindness. ‘it was good of you to come’
(b). Commanding respect. ‘he was concerned with establishing and maintaining his good name’
(c). Belonging or relating to a high social class. ‘he comes from a good family’

synonyms: virtue, righteousness, goodness, morality, integrity, rectitude; More

4. Valid or benefit or advantage to someone or something.
(a). Valid. ‘the ticket is good for travel from May to September’
(b). "he convinces his father to use his genius for the good of mankind"
synonyms: benefit, advantage, profit, gain, interest, welfare, well-being;
(c) well. "my mother could never cook this good"
githundi
#53 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 4:59:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2010
Posts: 1,308
Location: nairobi metropolitan
Kusadikika wrote:
Teaching your children. People use this phrase very often and the assumption is that it is a good thing. What does it mean, to teach your children?? How would you do it??

Offering guidance and role modelling
Democracy does not belong to the dead
githundi
#54 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 5:01:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2010
Posts: 1,308
Location: nairobi metropolitan
githundi wrote:
Kusadikika wrote:
Teaching your children. People use this phrase very often and the assumption is that it is a good thing. What does it mean, to teach your children?? How would you do it??

Offering guidance and role modelling

Also through positive or negative reinforcement of a child behaviour
Democracy does not belong to the dead
masukuma
#55 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 5:56:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

I guess your question has been answered by my post #48

A good man knows his role given a circumstance. And a good woman also knows her role given a circumstance. It is not about competition, but role taking that produces the best whole... in an equitable manner, not equal manner, coz male and female are not same.

I hope it is clearer now?

My question alludes to the relativity of the whole matter - your answer is what YOU consider a good woman/man - it's clearer to me what you consider a good woman/man but unclear if there is a universal definition of such a person that all will agree with.

I believe we have "universal" definition of "good" in our English dictionaries.

Definition good
ɡo͝od/
adjective
1. to be desired or approved of.
"we live at peace with each other, which is good"
synonyms: healthy, fine, sound, tip-top, hale and hearty, fit, robust, sturdy, strong, vigorous More

2. having the qualities required for a particular role. "the schools here are good", "this is a good month for planting seeds". synonyms: fine, superior, quality;

3. that which is morally right; righteousness.
"a mysterious balance of good and evil". "her father was a good man".
(a). Showing kindness. ‘it was good of you to come’
(b). Commanding respect. ‘he was concerned with establishing and maintaining his good name’
(c). Belonging or relating to a high social class. ‘he comes from a good family’

synonyms: virtue, righteousness, goodness, morality, integrity, rectitude; More

4. Valid or benefit or advantage to someone or something.
(a). Valid. ‘the ticket is good for travel from May to September’
(b). "he convinces his father to use his genius for the good of mankind"
synonyms: benefit, advantage, profit, gain, interest, welfare, well-being;
(c) well. "my mother could never cook this good"

Yes... good is known. I think. We say God is good. Yet He commited what can only be classified as genocide during Noah's time.... but I digress. We kinda know what good is but a "good man". What are the attributes of a good man or a good woman for that matter. Are the same traits that earn a man the title of being a "good man" capable of earning a woman the title of being a "good woman"?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#56 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 6:25:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

I guess your question has been answered by my post #48

A good man knows his role given a circumstance. And a good woman also knows her role given a circumstance. It is not about competition, but role taking that produces the best whole... in an equitable manner, not equal manner, coz male and female are not same.

I hope it is clearer now?

My question alludes to the relativity of the whole matter - your answer is what YOU consider a good woman/man - it's clearer to me what you consider a good woman/man but unclear if there is a universal definition of such a person that all will agree with.

I believe we have "universal" definition of "good" in our English dictionaries.

Definition good
ɡo͝od/
adjective
1. to be desired or approved of.
"we live at peace with each other, which is good"
synonyms: healthy, fine, sound, tip-top, hale and hearty, fit, robust, sturdy, strong, vigorous More

2. having the qualities required for a particular role. "the schools here are good", "this is a good month for planting seeds". synonyms: fine, superior, quality;

3. that which is morally right; righteousness.
"a mysterious balance of good and evil". "her father was a good man".
(a). Showing kindness. ‘it was good of you to come’
(b). Commanding respect. ‘he was concerned with establishing and maintaining his good name’
(c). Belonging or relating to a high social class. ‘he comes from a good family’

synonyms: virtue, righteousness, goodness, morality, integrity, rectitude; More

4. Valid or benefit or advantage to someone or something.
(a). Valid. ‘the ticket is good for travel from May to September’
(b). "he convinces his father to use his genius for the good of mankind"
synonyms: benefit, advantage, profit, gain, interest, welfare, well-being;
(c) well. "my mother could never cook this good"

Yes... good is known. I think. We say God is good. Yet He commited what can only be classified as genocide during Noah's time.... but I digress. We kinda know what good is but a "good man". What are the attributes of a good man or a good woman for that matter. Are the same traits that earn a man the title of being a "good man" capable of earning a woman the title of being a "good woman"?
In urban culture you are not a good man if you don't take up half of all household chores. And cry.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#57 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 7:28:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

I guess your question has been answered by my post #48

A good man knows his role given a circumstance. And a good woman also knows her role given a circumstance. It is not about competition, but role taking that produces the best whole... in an equitable manner, not equal manner, coz male and female are not same.

I hope it is clearer now?

My question alludes to the relativity of the whole matter - your answer is what YOU consider a good woman/man - it's clearer to me what you consider a good woman/man but unclear if there is a universal definition of such a person that all will agree with.

I believe we have "universal" definition of "good" in our English dictionaries.

Definition good
ɡo͝od/
adjective
1. to be desired or approved of.
"we live at peace with each other, which is good"
synonyms: healthy, fine, sound, tip-top, hale and hearty, fit, robust, sturdy, strong, vigorous More

2. having the qualities required for a particular role. "the schools here are good", "this is a good month for planting seeds". synonyms: fine, superior, quality;

3. that which is morally right; righteousness.
"a mysterious balance of good and evil". "her father was a good man".
(a). Showing kindness. ‘it was good of you to come’
(b). Commanding respect. ‘he was concerned with establishing and maintaining his good name’
(c). Belonging or relating to a high social class. ‘he comes from a good family’

synonyms: virtue, righteousness, goodness, morality, integrity, rectitude; More

4. Valid or benefit or advantage to someone or something.
(a). Valid. ‘the ticket is good for travel from May to September’
(b). "he convinces his father to use his genius for the good of mankind"
synonyms: benefit, advantage, profit, gain, interest, welfare, well-being;
(c) well. "my mother could never cook this good"

Yes... good is known. I think. We say God is good. Yet He commited what can only be classified as genocide during Noah's time.... but I digress. We kinda know what good is but a "good man". What are the attributes of a good man or a good woman for that matter. Are the same traits that earn a man the title of being a "good man" capable of earning a woman the title of being a "good woman"?
In urban culture you are not a good man if you don't take up half of all household chores. And cry.

And your wife not "good woman" if she does not pay half the rent, and can smack that rat if she finds it at the store... and holds her waist as she asks you if you've fed the baby with formula milk.
masukuma
#58 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:54:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Exactly.... it's all relative. Why do others think they are "right" more than others?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Mtu Biz
#59 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2016 8:19:37 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
I think @alphs point is quite clear.

I am in agreement.

Balance requires complimentary cooperation not 'equality'.

Evidence of this is everywhere in nature.
Sola Scriptura


tycho
#60 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2016 9:11:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Complimentarity and equality aren't mutually exclusive.

Complimentarity alone is too vague. It can be about unhealthy relationships, it can be about unfair domination...

For me, it's a matter of choice how a culture will answer the question of who a good woman or man is.

Dictionaries don't give meanings, they describe the meanings inferred from usage. So a dictionary meaning isn't as authoritative as some here would claim.
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