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Death of Nairobi National Park - help save the park!
wanyee
#21 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:15:20 PM
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Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
Pretentious sentimentalism ..Karen/Langata would and should still be part of NNP ..but hey noooh the animals have a right to terrorize, maim and even kill the natives to the South East in the name of wildlife dispersal...ikatwe ijengwe nonsense if someone cares a lot about NNP let them donate a piece of Karen also.
masukuma
#22 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:25:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
What I find it interesting that homo sapiens tend to think of the earth as "their property". Animals have the right to this place too... they are like you. It's bad enough that you have put them in an enclosure - you now want to kick them out because you have failed to plan for the area you have already? What a wasteful species. You have tracts of land in kiambu unoccupied and laying fallow or being used to "grow maize" and you dare look lustfully at a wildlife sanctuary. Shape up.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#23 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:32:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
We don't have wildlife sanctuaries for tourism or revenue... we have them so that animals may live their lives there. Revenues and benefits to human beings are secondary. Si nyinyi muende kuishi huko mnasema wanyama wasongeshwe? Nani hapa alitengeneza mchanga?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#24 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:47:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
It may shock you but the universe does not exist for your happiness and convenience.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
hardwood
#25 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 8:16:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
masukuma wrote:
We don't have wildlife sanctuaries for tourism or revenue... we have them so that animals may live their lives there. Revenues and benefits to human beings are secondary. Si nyinyi muende kuishi huko mnasema wanyama wasongeshwe? Nani hapa alitengeneza mchanga?


Very well put. In fact when we arrived in the city from the village not so long ago we found animals which have been living in this ecosystem for hundreds (thousands? millions?) of years. And now we the recent immigrants think we have more right than the original owners, the animals, and that they should be moved away. Sad. That park should be left the way it is even if we exhaust all the land between nairobi and mombasa city. We can build in mandera. The species Homo sapiens (man) doesn't have more rights on planet earth than the other species such as Panthera leo (lion), Syncerus caffa (buffalo), Crocuta crocuta (hyena) etc etc. We are the ones who found the animals here in the city and should be the ones to find alternative settlement.
masukuma
#26 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 8:21:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
We don't have wildlife sanctuaries for tourism or revenue... we have them so that animals may live their lives there. Revenues and benefits to human beings are secondary. Si nyinyi muende kuishi huko mnasema wanyama wasongeshwe? Nani hapa alitengeneza mchanga?


Very well put. In fact when we arrived in the city from the village not so long ago we found animals which have been living in this ecosystem for hundreds (thousands? millions?) of years. And now we the recent immigrants think we have more right than the original owners, the animals, and that they should be moved away. Sad. That park should be left the way it is even if we exhaust all the land between nairobi and mombasa city. We can build in mandera. The species Homo sapiens (man) doesn't have more rights on planet earth than the other species such as Panthera leo (lion), Syncerus caffa (buffalo), Crocuta crocuta (hyena) etc etc. We are the ones who found the animals here in the city and should be the ones to find alternative settlement.

The sad thing is that it's not for survival purposes i.e. for us to survive animals must die...it's for convenience. Yet we have the means to "develop" alternatives we just find it inconvenient.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
hardwood
#27 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:22:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
We don't have wildlife sanctuaries for tourism or revenue... we have them so that animals may live their lives there. Revenues and benefits to human beings are secondary. Si nyinyi muende kuishi huko mnasema wanyama wasongeshwe? Nani hapa alitengeneza mchanga?


Very well put. In fact when we arrived in the city from the village not so long ago we found animals which have been living in this ecosystem for hundreds (thousands? millions?) of years. And now we the recent immigrants think we have more right than the original owners, the animals, and that they should be moved away. Sad. That park should be left the way it is even if we exhaust all the land between nairobi and mombasa city. We can build in mandera. The species Homo sapiens (man) doesn't have more rights on planet earth than the other species such as Panthera leo (lion), Syncerus caffa (buffalo), Crocuta crocuta (hyena) etc etc. We are the ones who found the animals here in the city and should be the ones to find alternative settlement.

The sad thing is that it's not for survival purposes i.e. for us to survive animals must die...it's for convenience. Yet we have the means to "develop" alternatives we just find it inconvenient.


I understand the Chinese had proposed to build a 6km tunnel running under the park and leave everything above ground intact. And that would have been much much cheaper than the proposed elevated line over the park. But KWS refused. That tunnel was the best option in my honest opinion.
Alba
#28 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:49:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
hardwood wrote:


Very well put. In fact when we arrived in the city from the village not so long ago we found animals which have been living in this ecosystem for hundreds (thousands? millions?) of years. And now we the recent immigrants think we have more right than the original owners, the animals, and that they should be moved away. Sad. That park should be left the way it is even if we exhaust all the land between nairobi and mombasa city. We can build in mandera. The species Homo sapiens (man) doesn't have more rights on planet earth than the other species such as Panthera leo (lion), Syncerus caffa (buffalo), Crocuta crocuta (hyena) etc etc. We are the ones who found the animals here in the city and should be the ones to find alternative settlement.


Over 100 years ago, Homo Sapiens were building a railway across Tsavo and some maneless Panthera Leo terrorized Homo Sapiens, attacking them in their sleep. Many Bahindi and Baafrigha labourers lost their lives. Nature will fight back again. Ngoja tu.
hardwood
#29 Posted : Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:01:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Alba wrote:
hardwood wrote:


Very well put. In fact when we arrived in the city from the village not so long ago we found animals which have been living in this ecosystem for hundreds (thousands? millions?) of years. And now we the recent immigrants think we have more right than the original owners, the animals, and that they should be moved away. Sad. That park should be left the way it is even if we exhaust all the land between nairobi and mombasa city. We can build in mandera. The species Homo sapiens (man) doesn't have more rights on planet earth than the other species such as Panthera leo (lion), Syncerus caffa (buffalo), Crocuta crocuta (hyena) etc etc. We are the ones who found the animals here in the city and should be the ones to find alternative settlement.


Over 100 years ago, Homo Sapiens were building a railway across Tsavo and some maneless Panthera Leo terrorized Homo Sapiens, attacking them in their sleep. Many Bahindi and Baafrigha labourers lost their lives. Nature will fight back again. Ngoja tu.


If you look at the major cities in the world on Google maps and Google earth you will realise that Nairobi is one of the few cities in the whole world with huge tracts of land sorrounding it available to expand to. Towards kangundo, machakos, tatu and kajiado. Thus i just can't understand the obsession with Nairobi park land.
wa P
#30 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 9:51:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 326
Location: Nairobi
NNP may not survive the next few years but for reasons completely outside this debate.
There is extremely high rural and other urban migration to Nairobi post the devolution bubble.

Possibly 40% of all Kenya votes will reside in Nairobi by 2022.

Adjacent/ expansion land is mainly held by speculators yet purchase power among <30 is shrinking.

A 'Mwenje' happens; imagine what becomes to animals if just 10,000 angry, hungry and high youths occupy the park even for 1 week.

To protect the NNP (and of course many other urban needs and externalities thereof), a serious economic stimulus is needed in Kenya.

Looking at the current political actors, such stimulus may be a generation or a revolution away.

As for NNP and SGR - let us save our time and efforts. Reli will pass through the park - there is no viable counter-route, no credible counter-advocacy and you-know-who already played his cards well with key appointment at KWS.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#31 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 10:16:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Nairobians have no clue as to just how good they have it living right next to a national park.

As hardwood says, those who know what to do with their weekends will enjoy every other time they can spare to visit the park with family.

carry a few beers, take the kids for a quick stroll around the animal orphanage so they get an up close experience with the animals, then proceed into the park for a leisure drive till late evening.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
AlphDoti
#32 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 10:29:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
wanyee wrote:
Pretentious sentimentalism ..Karen/Langata would and should still be part of NNP ..but hey noooh the animals have a right to terrorize, maim and even kill the natives to the South East in the name of wildlife dispersal...ikatwe ijengwe nonsense if someone cares a lot about NNP let them donate a piece of Karen also.

That attitude you have is exactly what is depicted in the video below...
wanyee
#33 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 12:18:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
AlphDoti wrote:
wanyee wrote:
Pretentious sentimentalism ..Karen/Langata would and should still be part of NNP ..but hey noooh the animals have a right to terrorize, maim and even kill the natives to the South East in the name of wildlife dispersal...ikatwe ijengwe nonsense if someone cares a lot about NNP let them donate a piece of Karen also.

That attitude you have is exactly what is depicted in the video below...

aside my point is that the very ones shouting loudest are the ones depicted in that vid...currently living in an ex forest/woodland let them show true cause and vacate the we have lions and hyenas roaming all the way to Dagoreti and Kibra
sitaki.kujulikana
#34 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 1:08:43 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Nairobians have no clue as to just how good they have it living right next to a national park.

As hardwood says, those who know what to do with their weekends will enjoy every other time they can spare to visit the park with family.

carry a few beers, take the kids for a quick stroll around the animal orphanage so they get an up close experience with the animals, then proceed into the park for a leisure drive till late evening.

Ngalaka
#35 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 1:21:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Man as the only intelligent animals has to plan how to responsibly and SUSTAINABLY manage the land resource for all including other Living and non living things. If man decides that further preservation of the land as National Park does not serve any sensible reason in todays circumstances then man will take the next course of action - hopefully in a responsible way.

Pretending here that Man, and other living things are on the same footing in such matters as priority to live, managing issues, etc does not cut it.

Truth is if in the evening you get home and find some termites, wasps, rodents, reptiles etc in your compound or house, you will sure enough crush them.

Human beings kill and eat meat from other animals but would never countenance those animals killing humans for meat, and if any animal is foolish enough to attempt it, it will be hunted down and eliminated as a matter of priority.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Lolest!
#36 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 1:24:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Ngalaka wrote:
Man as the only intelligent animals has to plan how to responsibly and SUSTAINABLY manage the land resource for all including other Living and non living things. If man decides that further preservation of the land as National Park does not serve any sensible reason in todays circumstances then man will take the next course of action - hopefully in a responsible way.

Pretending here that Man, and other living things are on the same footing in such matters as priority to live, managing issues, etc does not cut it.

Truth is if in the evening you get home and find some termites, wasps, rodents, reptiles etc in your compound or house, you will sure enough crush them.

Human beings kill and eat meat from other animals but would never countenance those animals killing humans for meat, and if any animal is foolish enough to attempt it, it will be hunted down and eliminated as a matter of priority.

Likesmile
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#37 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 1:32:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
hardwood wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
hardwood wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Kusadikika wrote:
I think the Nairobi National Park is a total waste of space. In my opinion the whole park should be closed and the land well planned and subdivided for both residential and commercial use. It is of no use kabisa. I do not think even its revenues justify its existence. It is just one of the vestiges of colonization and we keep it because some rich wazungus think it is important but to a majority of Kenyans and especially Nairobians this park has no value at all.

Some MP should begin drafting a law for its dissolution and if that does not work subject the question to a referendum by Nairobians and I am sure majority will vote to do away with it.

We cannot be living in congestion while 28,963 acres are just left out for animals. Even the tourists who come do not come to Nairobi so that they can go to the National Park.

Does this mean we have settled (and congested) all lands from syokimau to katani to lukenya, kitengela, isinya, Tuala, Juja farm, kamulu etc etc and the only land available now is Nairobi national park?

Also, it is totally wrong to state that the park has no value at all to Nairobians, when majority of them live in flats/apartments and slums and the only large place they can relax and get fresh air is that national park.

@masukuma do you have the numbers of nairobians who even know a park exists in Nairobi

How would they know if the only form of relaxation they know is phombe? Instead of spending 3k on a weekend on phombe, nyama, fish etc why not put 1k fuel in the car and take the family on an afternoon game drive at the park? If you dont have a car you could hire a taxi at 2k for the same, and even KWS has scheduled tour buses for those who do not have cars. City life shouldn't only be about being imprisoned in your apartment or visiting the pub.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listen to Hardwood!

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

A clap for you @hardwood.

I think @Kusadikika is just being emotional. Do you think if the park is "dissolved", you will get a share of the land? Not likely. The truth is that the same rich guys you mentioned will have it in thousands through proxies and resell it to you at exorbitant prices... That would be the easiest ticket for them to own an additional land.

There is nothing I love more than having my cold tusker at the picnic site within the park on a saturday afternoon with family and friends - and in the company of lions, wildebeestes and rhinos. No need to travel to maasai mara when I have nature on my doorstep. Sad that I am always in the company of msungus and muhindis on such occasions coz the African middle class is drowning in phombe in smoke filled estate pubs at that time.









You're making the nyam-chom majority look bad!!

But I like your thoughts and photos

Feel guilty already
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Jus Blazin
#38 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 1:40:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2008
Posts: 3,966
Quote:
Phase 2A route Description

The route starts from the West end of the Nairobi South Hub (end point of the Mombasa – Nairobi SGR), turns south-westwards through the Nairobi National Park and west past Twala and Ongata Rongai Towns; crosses Magadi Road next to the Adventists University and Ngong Road at Embulbul; descends into Rift Valley through a tunnel located North-West of Ngong Hills, proceeds North-West to the proposed Industrial Parks at Mai Mahiu and Suswa then crosses B3 at Duka Moja.


Quote:
GR crossing the Park
SGR crosses the park on a single line bridge spanning the total width of the Park (6.0 Km);
Average height of the bridge above the ground = 18 metres – starting from 8 metres at the entrance into the Northern side of the Park and 41 metres at the exit Southern end of the Park;
Bridge ensures the Park remains undivided;
Clearance under the bridge considered adequate for smooth flow of Wildlife across the bridge and tourists traffic;
The bridge is similar to that applied across the Tsavo River where there is evidence wildlife have already got used to passing under the bridge;

Railway crossing the Park: Bridge specifications
Bridge pillar foundations dug deep in the ground to reduce ground vibration during the operations
Noise deflectors installed on the bridge to reduce noise from passing trains
Bridge abutments to be outside the park to prevent human trespass and wildlife escaping
Bridge colour to be chosen for blending with the environment
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
hardwood
#39 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 1:55:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
For a city of >4m that seriously lacks public recreation spaces/parks why would anyone advocate converting the only large public space, the Nairobi national park, into a concrete jungle of ugly flats/apartments/townhouses? Why would any one want to replicate the chaos in rongai to the park next door?

Many yrs ago greedy land grabbers were saying the same about karura forest, that we didn't need a forest within the city, a city where many needed land to put up houses. But kenyans led by Wangari Maathai said no. And the city moved on. Now we are having similar calls to degazette nairobi national park because we need land to build on, and we should all say NO. A railway can be built under the park or over the park but the park should remain.
Alba
#40 Posted : Friday, September 16, 2016 4:06:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
wa P wrote:

Possibly 40% of all Kenya votes will reside in Nairobi by 2022.

So Nairobi's population will be about 20 million in the next 6 years?
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