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Burkini- the woman as battle ground?
tycho
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:28:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Is it about war on terror, or is it about war against non-conformity?

Are we finally getting a glimpse of things as they really are?

https://www.theguardian....n-we-criminalise-clothes
AlphDoti
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:33:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
One one side, it is war on women. Hundred years ago, women were being policed on what to wear: arrested for short dress. Now, for covering herself.

On the other hand, it is a cultural offensive against Islam and Muslims. And they are using dress or beard or language as an excuse to get into them.
harrydre
#3 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 3:24:23 AM
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Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
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.
i.am.back!!!!
chemirocha
#4 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 8:18:02 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
The irony is if you look at photos from the 60's, women in the Arab world were dressed in the western fashion of jeans and mini skirts.
guru267
#5 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 8:29:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
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chemirocha wrote:
The irony is if you look at photos from the 60's, women in the Arab world were dressed in the western fashion of jeans and mini skirts.


That was after the fall of the Ottoman empire where Arab Nationalism took hold and Islamic practice was subdued...

Those days are gone and we are in the midst of an Islamic revival..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
tycho
#6 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 9:34:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
chemirocha wrote:
The irony is if you look at photos from the 60's, women in the Arab world were dressed in the western fashion of jeans and mini skirts.


That was after the fall of the Ottoman empire where Arab Nationalism took hold and Islamic practice was subdued...

Those days are gone and we are in the midst of an Islamic revival..


Even in this Islamic revival, the woman is still a battlefied. There's no change that's significant from the 'Arab Nationalists'. Why? It's still the Men who will dictate how they should dress... what they should aspire to be.
grolut
#7 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 9:35:41 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 563
Location: Embakasi
[quote=tycho]Is it about war on terror, or is it about war against non-conformity?

Are we finally getting a glimpse of things as they really are?

https://www.theguardian....-we-criminalise-clothes[/quote]

Just ask yourself if it were skin cancer survivors who were the main proponents of this swimsuit, would there be any ban? It's pure Islamophobia.
In a place where thought is abandoned, freedom can become a curse.
tycho
#8 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 9:48:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
grolut wrote:
[quote=tycho]Is it about war on terror, or is it about war against non-conformity?

Are we finally getting a glimpse of things as they really are?

https://www.theguardian....-we-criminalise-clothes[/quote]

Just ask yourself if it were skin cancer survivors who were the main proponents of this swimsuit, would there be any ban? It's pure Islamophobia.


And probably a losing battle.
hardwood
#9 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 10:23:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
If you go to Rome do as the Romans do. You are their guest and should conform with their way of life, including dressing. If they swim in bikinis then you should also turn up at the pool or beach in a bikini, not some "queer" swimming attire.
grolut
#10 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 11:50:15 AM
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Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 563
Location: Embakasi
hardwood wrote:
If you go to Rome do as the Romans do. You are their guest and should conform with their way of life, including dressing. If they swim in bikinis then you should also turn up at the pool or beach in a bikini, not some "queer" swimming attire.


Russians like to wear speedos, if I go there I'm sticking to my bermudas thanks. Laughing out loudly
In a place where thought is abandoned, freedom can become a curse.
AlphDoti
#11 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 12:23:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
guru267 wrote:
chemirocha wrote:
The irony is if you look at photos from the 60's, women in the Arab world were dressed in the western fashion of jeans and mini skirts.

That was after the fall of the Ottoman empire where Arab Nationalism took hold and Islamic practice was subdued...

Those days are gone and we are in the midst of an Islamic revival..

Even in this Islamic revival, the woman is still a battlefied. There's no change that's significant from the 'Arab Nationalists'. Why? It's still the Men who will dictate how they should dress... what they should aspire to be.

@tycho, this is where you're wrong. I hope you know that their fathers didn't tell them to do that, their brothers didn't tell them to do that, their sons didn't tell them to do that. This is NOT something that ONLY Muslim women were told; but Jewish women also, and Christian women also and Muslim women also were doing this.

Unfortunately, now modern civilization (man-made) has asked women not to wear that, they could wear bikinis, does not mean that our culture (and God's wisdom, for those who are religious) is wrong and the modernist are right, no!
AlphDoti
#12 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 12:26:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
hardwood wrote:
If you go to Rome do as the Romans do. You are their guest and should conform with their way of life, including dressing. If they swim in bikinis then you should also turn up at the pool or beach in a bikini, not some "queer" swimming attire.

@hardwood, are you sure this woman is a foreigner? I doubt. She must be a French lady.
Fullykenyan
#13 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 12:45:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 560
Location: Eastlando
AlphDoti wrote:
One one side, it is war on women. Hundred years ago, women were being policed on what to wear: arrested for short dress. Now, for covering herself.

On the other hand, it is a cultural offensive against Islam and Muslims. And they are using dress or beard or language as an excuse to get into them.


Christians conform to expected dressing attire in Saudi Arabia and other Sharia countries and the same is expected of nmoslems when they immigrate to western countries or else they should stay in their sharia compliant countries.
AlphDoti
#14 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 12:50:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
grolut wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is it about war on terror, or is it about war against non-conformity?

Are we finally getting a glimpse of things as they really are?

https://www.theguardian....-we-criminalise-clothes

Just ask yourself if it were skin cancer survivors who were the main proponents of this swimsuit, would there be any ban? It's pure Islamophobia.

And probably a losing battle.

Yes, it is a losing battle. As we speak, in France, 40% of children born are from Muslim families... so wacha wafanye hesabu... @guru said once, "Continue blaming Islam for all problems... The fact will still remain that on this globe Islam is the fastest growing religion despite all the "terror allegations"..."
AlphDoti
#15 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 12:56:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Fullykenyan wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
One one side, it is war on women. Hundred years ago, women were being policed on what to wear: arrested for short dress. Now, for covering herself.

On the other hand, it is a cultural offensive against Islam and Muslims. And they are using dress or beard or language as an excuse to get into them.

Christians conform to expected dressing attire in Saudi Arabia and other Sharia countries and the same is expected of nmoslems when they immigrate to western countries or else they should stay in their sharia complient countries.

@Fullykenyan, whether in Christian country or Sharia one, I won't say the police will be doing right thing.

And what you are assuming is that the woman is an immigrant. She could be a native French... So assumptions are dangerous.
Fullykenyan
#16 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 1:25:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 560
Location: Eastlando
AlphDoti wrote:
Fullykenyan wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
One one side, it is war on women. Hundred years ago, women were being policed on what to wear: arrested for short dress. Now, for covering herself.

On the other hand, it is a cultural offensive against Islam and Muslims. And they are using dress or beard or language as an excuse to get into them.

Christians conform to expected dressing attire in Saudi Arabia and other Sharia countries and the same is expected of nmoslems when they immigrate to western countries or else they should stay in their sharia complient countries.

@Fullykenyan, whether in Christian country or Sharia one, I won't say the police will be doing right thing.

And what you are assuming is that the woman is an immigrant. She could be a native French... So assumptions are dangerous.


She is not French per say, she is third Generation immigrant in France.
Fullykenyan
#17 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 1:27:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 560
Location: Eastlando
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
grolut wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is it about war on terror, or is it about war against non-conformity?

Are we finally getting a glimpse of things as they really are?

https://www.theguardian....-we-criminalise-clothes

Just ask yourself if it were skin cancer survivors who were the main proponents of this swimsuit, would there be any ban? It's pure Islamophobia.

And probably a losing battle.

Yes, it is a losing battle. As we speak, in France, 40% of children born are from Muslim families... so wacha wafanye hesabu... @guru said once, "Continue blaming Islam for all problems... The fact will still remain that on this globe Islam is the fastest growing religion despite all the "terror allegations"..."


Fastest growing doesn´t say a thing about absolute numbers. I still believe Christianity will remain a majority in the next 100 years
tycho
#18 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 2:18:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
guru267 wrote:
chemirocha wrote:
The irony is if you look at photos from the 60's, women in the Arab world were dressed in the western fashion of jeans and mini skirts.

That was after the fall of the Ottoman empire where Arab Nationalism took hold and Islamic practice was subdued...

Those days are gone and we are in the midst of an Islamic revival..

Even in this Islamic revival, the woman is still a battlefied. There's no change that's significant from the 'Arab Nationalists'. Why? It's still the Men who will dictate how they should dress... what they should aspire to be.

@tycho, this is where you're wrong. I hope you know that their fathers didn't tell them to do that, their brothers didn't tell them to do that, their sons didn't tell them to do that. This is NOT something that ONLY Muslim women were told; but Jewish women also, and Christian women also and Muslim women also were doing this.

Unfortunately, now modern civilization (man-made) has asked women not to wear that, they could wear bikinis, does not mean that our culture (and God's wisdom, for those who are religious) is wrong and the modernist are right, no!


History and science unfortunately have no means behind God. Humanity has always chosen for itself how to live. The Jews, early Christians, Muslims all chose a model of life that dominated the woman and automatically made her a battle ground.

Even now, this war against terror is a lie. It's a war for domination of other races, religions, and political ideologies.

Other worlds are possible, but there's reluctance to have them, why? http://www.enotes.com/topics/chalice-blade
Obi 1 Kanobi
#19 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 3:32:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
The french have had a tough year with Islamic related terror, lets give them a little leeway to regain some semblance of control, may seem a tad overbearing but again who wouldn't react the way they are reacting.

In fact Islamic nations act in this exact way in their areas of control. The same way the french are trying to enforce french acceptable attire is the same way Islamic countries force shariah compliant attire in their countries. I don't hear anyone complaining about it though.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
chemirocha
#20 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2016 3:39:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
The french have had a tough year with Islamic related terror, lets give them a little leeway to regain some semblance of control, may seem a tad overbearing but again who wouldn't react the way they are reacting.

In fact Islamic nations act in this exact way in their areas of control. The same way the french are trying to enforce french acceptable attire is the same way Islamic countries force shariah compliant attire in their countries. I don't hear anyone complaining about it though.


One of the founding principles of the French Republic is social equality for all. For the government to restrict those freedoms is hypocrisy of the highest order.
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