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Law Capping interest rates
iris
#221 Posted : Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:35:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/11/2014
Posts: 228
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
iris wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
enyands wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
enyands wrote:
Now this was the missing part of puzzle iv been looking for and found it

1 If I make a member deposit of 1m in 2015 Jan ,I'll expect a dividend of 110,000 in Dec 2015.

2 If I take a loan of 1m in 2016 IL be expected to pay an interest of 120,000 by Dec 2016

3 if I choose to tell them to use my dividend of last year 2015 (110,000) to pay my interest this year (120,000) ,all I'll do is make additional 10,000(roughly 900 sh every month) to take care of interest.
....
....
....

6 if I know I have a project coming in 2017 I'd rather deposit money in sacco of 1m 2016 and take a loan with sacco than deal with banks rate of 20-30% currently


This is just my thoughts

Wonders never seize!!! Explain to me like a 3 year old, why would you want to take a loan of 1 million and pay ANY AMOUNT OF INTEREST while you have 1 million in the same entity. Why not simply withdraw your 1 million - FOR FREE!!??


Well I want my 1m to remain there as a base if Incase I want 3m .you know you can get 3 times your deposit . The one million is just a hypethical example sir

But as per the example you are talking about getting 1 million while having a deposit of 1 million!!

And in any case, you can get your 1 million, 110,000/= dividend and the monthly payments you would be making deposit them as savings. You would still be back at 1 million (savings) without paying any interest and having pocketed the dividends!

That sounds like the typical hand-to-mouth approach that we excel at as a nation. So you would get the 1m and dividends today "cheaply", but what happens to your plans for tomorrow? If the one million cannot complete your project, then what is your next source of funds? Would it not be better to borrow the 1m cheaply from the sacco, stretch to pay while knowing that you can go back immediately when your project requires more funding?


this is a skewed argument


Please explain the skew
FRM2011
#222 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 4:14:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
http://www.businessdaily...9344-13hpa92/index.html

I note our admin is very active on Twitter under @wazua.

ION KBA has released an MoU to show their commitment to bring down rates. Everything considered, seems like we are going to have a reasonable settlement to the clamour for lower lending rates.

For banks, it might be safe to say their best days are behind them.
penkon
#223 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 4:39:15 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/12/2014
Posts: 96
FRM2011 wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/ICPAK-endorses-Bill-capping-interest-rates/539546-3339344-13hpa92/index.html

I note our admin is very active on Twitter under @wazua.

ION KBA has released an MoU to show their commitment to bring down rates. Everything considered, seems like we are going to have a reasonable settlement to the clamour for lower lending rates.

For banks, it might be safe to say their best days are behind them.


“Within the next one year, we will work on enhancing business models across the sector geared towards reducing interest rates for our customers,” Mr Olaka said Shame on you Shame on you
streetwise
#224 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:06:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
Way to go. This business of banks operating as shyshocks is a joke
Angelica _ann
#225 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:20:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
streetwise wrote:
Way to go. This business of banks operating as shyshocks is a joke

Don't care much about banks. I have done alot through Sacco and chamas. smile
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
maka
#226 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:29:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
streetwise wrote:
Way to go. This business of banks operating as shyshocks is a joke

Don't care much about banks. I have done alot through Sacco and chamas. smile


You were told those are for people with "poor credit rating" whatever that meant...
possunt quia posse videntur
newfarer
#227 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 5:57:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
The best bill to happen in Kenya

mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Banks-rally-to-lower-cost-of-loans-amid-looming-cap-threat/1950106-3340052-tv0drtz/index.html
punda amecheka
Boris Boyka
#228 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:14:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
maka wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
streetwise wrote:
Way to go. This business of banks operating as shyshocks is a joke

Don't care much about banks. I have done alot through Sacco and chamas. smile


You were told those are for people with "poor credit rating" whatever that meant...

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly @Maka @Anne Those despising Sacco's are but filled with pride similar to Barclay's bank pride them days.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#229 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:39:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
newfarer wrote:
The best bill to happen in Kenya

mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Banks-rally-to-lower-cost-of-loans-amid-looming-cap-threat/1950106-3340052-tv0drtz/index.html


@MB will disagree.

I hope the CBK/UK squeezes the banks for some real tangible commitments before chickening out and not signing the bill as everyone expects him not to.

For me I would just sign the bill and let the chips fall.

An interest rate margin>7% is utopian for banks in the rest of the world, but for our "shybanks", its not enough, they want 15% to remain super profitable
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
streetwise
#230 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:53:32 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
If it were me I would sign the bill with eyes closed. I don't know what pres is waiting for. The banks are talking years to implement what ?
Spikes
#231 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:05:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
streetwise wrote:
If it were me I would sign the bill with eyes closed. I don't know what pres is waiting for. The banks are talking years to implement what ?



. Muiruri Gachoka took a loan of kshs 6million from Bank of Baronda in 1979. In 2014, the bank was demanding Kshs200million from his estate (possibly he could not survive the demands and died). Having borrowed at 14% interest to begin with, the interest was raised to 45% without reference to him. The amount being demanded from him was thus 33 times the amounts he had borrowed. Such an amount is impossible to pay and he inevitably lost his several pieces of land and another property in Nairobi. Even after this, the bank still demanded Kshs 70million more.
Mr. Kenneth Matiba lost his Alliance Group of Hotels to Barclays bank. His Jadin Hotel had 60 acres of land and a 300metres beachfront according to Daily Nation of 8th. August 2016. It was sold for Kshs900 while his Hillcrest school was sold for Kshs620million. He was ruined for life.
Mr. John Kanya guaranteed his company for a loan of Kshs13.5million. By the time he argued his case of infuriated interest rates in court, the bank was demanding kshs 64.5million.
A Mr. Charles A Joroge was not lucky as well. His loan of Kshs30million ballooned to Kshs78.5million and his case is well documented in the quoted daily Nation. This is a story of only very small fraction of Kenyans who have suffered at the hand of banks let loose on Kenyans. Many have lost their homes while others have lost their business which had taken years to build.
During his presidential campaign in 2013, President Uhuru Kenyatta promised to bring down the interest rates. Now parliament has made his work easy by passing the motion on interest capping. He only needs to append his signature. Do it my dear president, do it today. It ought to have been done yesterday, but it is not too late. If you sign it today, you will have saved hundreds of Kenyans whose property is at the mercy of Banks greed.
I am making this desperate appeal on behalf of the oppressed Kenyans, please help me spread the same appeal to as many people as possible. Pass it to all your friends in the social and without the social media for maximum reach. You may not be a victim today but you never know tomorrow.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
chemirocha
#232 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:14:30 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
Spikes wrote:


. Muiruri Gachoka took a loan of kshs 6million from Bank of Baronda in 1979. In 2014, the bank was demanding Kshs200million from his estate (possibly he could not survive the demands and died). Having borrowed at 14% interest to begin with, the interest was raised to 45% without reference to him. The amount being demanded from him was thus 33 times the amounts he had borrowed. Such an amount is impossible to pay and he inevitably lost his several pieces of land and another property in Nairobi. Even after this, the bank still demanded Kshs 70million more.
Mr. Kenneth Matiba lost his Alliance Group of Hotels to Barclays bank. His Jadin Hotel had 60 acres of land and a 300metres beachfront according to Daily Nation of 8th. August 2016. It was sold for Kshs900 while his Hillcrest school was sold for Kshs620million. He was ruined for life.
Mr. John Kanya guaranteed his company for a loan of Kshs13.5million. By the time he argued his case of infuriated interest rates in court, the bank was demanding kshs 64.5million.
A Mr. Charles A Joroge was not lucky as well. His loan of Kshs30million ballooned to Kshs78.5million and his case is well documented in the quoted daily Nation. This is a story of only very small fraction of Kenyans who have suffered at the hand of banks let loose on Kenyans. Many have lost their homes while others have lost their business which had taken years to build.
During his presidential campaign in 2013, President Uhuru Kenyatta promised to bring down the interest rates. Now parliament has made his work easy by passing the motion on interest capping. He only needs to append his signature. Do it my dear president, do it today. It ought to have been done yesterday, but it is not too late. If you sign it today, you will have saved hundreds of Kenyans whose property is at the mercy of Banks greed.
I am making this desperate appeal on behalf of the oppressed Kenyans, please help me spread the same appeal to as many people as possible. Pass it to all your friends in the social and without the social media for maximum reach. You may not be a victim today but you never know tomorrow.


What an absurd justification for a flawed law.
streetwise
#233 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:20:16 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
Here we are talking of persons who have died due to distress from banks. A bad law is better than the current situation. We will amend the law along the way as we experience these bad things people are talking about. I am sure those who said the constitution was bad can tell us about lessons learned
Obi 1 Kanobi
#234 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:26:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
ICPAK is pro-capping, Applause Applause Applause
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
chemirocha
#235 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:29:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
streetwise wrote:
Here we are talking of persons who have died due to distress from banks. A bad law is better than the current situation. We will amend the law along the way as we experience these bad things people are talking about. I am sure those who said the constitution was bad can tell us about lessons learned


So how about being denied a loan because you don't fit the banks' risk profile? This populist garbage doesn't solve the issues with accessing credit.
iMANI
#236 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:55:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2008
Posts: 84
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
ICPAK is pro-capping, Applause Applause Applause



Quote:
The Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK) has endorsed a Bill seeking to cap interest rates, saying if adopted it would provide a mechanism for regulation to benefit borrowers.

“Ceilings if well implemented can be a good way of protecting consumers from high interest rates, making loans affordable,” Julius Mwatu, ICPAK national vice chairman said in a statement Wednesday.


Quote:
ICPAK hit out at those opposing the Bill, saying the banking sector in Kenya has operated on “an oligopolistic market mode where credit pricing is not reflective of market fundamentals.”

The accountants' body also dismissed a claim by bankers that the proposed law will distort the market.

“It has been argued that prices charged for access to credit can be unpredictable and anticompetitive; and therefore higher than the true cost of lending. Setting [a] lower cap on interest would provide a conducive environment for lenders to operate,” ICPAK said.


Full story here
Life and beer are very similar........chill for best results.


Boris Boyka
#237 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:58:50 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
chemirocha wrote:
streetwise wrote:
Here we are talking of persons who have died due to distress from banks. A bad law is better than the current situation. We will amend the law along the way as we experience these bad things people are talking about. I am sure those who said the constitution was bad can tell us about lessons learned


So how about being denied a loan because you don't fit the banks' risk profile? This populist garbage doesn't solve the issues with accessing credit.

With time the corporate loaning becomes saturated, the risk profiling is moderated and wanjiku gets into the 'low risk' bracket. Time heals everything. Who ever thought if having unsecured loans years back?
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
obiero
#238 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:35:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
Boris Boyka wrote:
chemirocha wrote:
streetwise wrote:
Here we are talking of persons who have died due to distress from banks. A bad law is better than the current situation. We will amend the law along the way as we experience these bad things people are talking about. I am sure those who said the constitution was bad can tell us about lessons learned


So how about being denied a loan because you don't fit the banks' risk profile? This populist garbage doesn't solve the issues with accessing credit.

With time the corporate loaning becomes saturated, the risk profiling is moderated and wanjiku gets into the 'low risk' bracket. Time heals everything. Who ever thought if having unsecured loans years back?

It is better to do something wrong quickly, than to do nothing right slowly - Bukusu proverb

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Obi 1 Kanobi
#239 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:37:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
chemirocha wrote:
streetwise wrote:
Here we are talking of persons who have died due to distress from banks. A bad law is better than the current situation. We will amend the law along the way as we experience these bad things people are talking about. I am sure those who said the constitution was bad can tell us about lessons learned


So how about being denied a loan because you don't fit the banks' risk profile? This populist garbage doesn't solve the issues with accessing credit.


I don't understand your comment. many people are denied loans everyday because they don't qualify? Ama what did you mean.

We are not suggesting that banks should lend money to every Wanjiku, Otieno & Kipchumba, what we are sayng is that they should not exploit the borrower just because they know the borrower has no other choices.

By the way the price of money is inelastic (meaning people will borrow even at 1000%) and thats what banks are taking advantage of.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
obiero
#240 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:39:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,516
Location: nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
chemirocha wrote:
streetwise wrote:
Here we are talking of persons who have died due to distress from banks. A bad law is better than the current situation. We will amend the law along the way as we experience these bad things people are talking about. I am sure those who said the constitution was bad can tell us about lessons learned


So how about being denied a loan because you don't fit the banks' risk profile? This populist garbage doesn't solve the issues with accessing credit.


I don't understand your comment. many people are denied loans everyday because they don't qualify? Ama what did you mean.

We are not suggesting that banks should lend money to every Wanjiku, Otieno & Kipchumba, what we are sayng is that they should not exploit the borrower just because they know the borrower has no other choices.

By the way the price of money is inelastic (meaning people will borrow even at 1000%) and thats what banks are taking advantage of.

Co-sign

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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