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Law Capping interest rates
MaichBlack
#81 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 3:20:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
newfarer wrote:
2.20am MaichBlack relax, this issue is giving you sleepless nights, even going to monologue mode, what's your interest?

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

May be where I am it was not 2.20am.

I am very relaxed on this one. There is no way the president is signing that bill!

If I was not afraid of being done what @Obiero did to @vvs on their 100k bet, I would have welcomed bets on the same!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
kaifastus
#82 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 3:22:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/17/2011
Posts: 207
Location: humu humu
in duplum rule, was a form of caping. it relieved kenyans of untold suffering. Banks cant reduce rates by themselves,cbk moral suasion notwithstanding. germany nigeria france some us states have some form of interest rate caps.
MaichBlack
#83 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 3:24:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
newfarer wrote:
Fuel prices are regulated. We have seen some stability in the prices no fuel rationing has occurred. I think it's are good bill as a bank customer. There are Saccos and MFIs to compete with banks if banks sidelines small borrowers.

You mean there is a ready made solution???

Then why aren't the small borrowers going to the Saccos and MFIs? What are they waiting for? And there is no better time for them to compete with banks than now because the bank rates are high.

You get my drift.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#84 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 3:27:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
newfarer wrote:
Fuel prices are regulated. We have seen some stability in the prices no fuel rationing has occurred. I think it's are good bill as a bank customer. There are Saccos and MFIs to compete with banks if banks sidelines small borrowers.

Oooh my goodness!!! We are comparing interest rates with fuel prices now??? Okaaay....
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
kaifastus
#85 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 3:34:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/17/2011
Posts: 207
Location: humu humu
In duplum rule that was passed by parliament yrs ago relieved kenyans of untold suffering. it was a form of a cap.Banks would never have let us off the hook then. in recent times, kbrr, moral suasion etc are in place.. banks still stubborn. always pricing loans high using own tools and flimsy justification. Germany,nigeria,France some US states has some form of cap.
MaichBlack
#86 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 3:36:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
mlennyma wrote:
Swenani wrote:
This is not about uhunye protecting his interests in CBA but it's common sense......It is a bad idea to cap interest rates-they are beter ways to reduce the rates if the govt is keen to.

freedom,freedom,freedom as a shareholder i want to see my bank with the independence in lending so that when it goes under they don't give excuses ,this is a very bad and dangerous law when combined with the current NPL's within the banking sector it can wipeout bank profits by a quarter or even half and cause unrest and public panic

@mlennyma - Apparently as a shareholder, you and your bank owe all kinds of random Kenyans a loan and it is your responsibility to ensure they get that loan at an "affordable rate" bla bla bla.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
mlennyma
#87 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 4:02:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
Swenani wrote:
This is not about uhunye protecting his interests in CBA but it's common sense......It is a bad idea to cap interest rates-they are beter ways to reduce the rates if the govt is keen to.

freedom,freedom,freedom as a shareholder i want to see my bank with the independence in lending so that when it goes under they don't give excuses ,this is a very bad and dangerous law when combined with the current NPL's within the banking sector it can wipeout bank profits by a quarter or even half and cause unrest and public panic

@mlennyma - Apparently as a shareholder, you and your bank owe all kinds of random Kenyans a loan and it is your responsibility to ensure they get that loan at an "affordable rate" bla bla bla.

we can only wait and see whether conflict of interest prevails
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
MaichBlack
#88 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 4:40:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
mlennyma wrote:
Swenani wrote:
This is not about uhunye protecting his interests in CBA but it's common sense......It is a bad idea to cap interest rates-they are beter ways to reduce the rates if the govt is keen to.

freedom,freedom,freedom as a shareholder i want to see my bank with the independence in lending so that when it goes under they don't give excuses ,this is a very bad and dangerous law when combined with the current NPL's within the banking sector it can wipeout bank profits by a quarter or even half and cause unrest and public panic

@mlennyma - Apparently as a shareholder, you and your bank owe all kinds of random Kenyans a loan and it is your responsibility to ensure they get that loan at an "affordable rate" bla bla bla.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#89 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 5:52:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
mlennyma wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Swenani wrote:
This is not about uhunye protecting his interests in CBA but it's common sense......It is a bad idea to cap interest rates-they are beter ways to reduce the rates if the govt is keen to.

Which are this other methods everyone keeps talking about and why has Treasury/CBK not applied them to the sector.

It is this failure by the CBK/Treasury to tame rates that has now forced the legislature to come up with this law

By the way interest rates caps of one form or another do exist in South Africa, India, Bangladesh.

In the US, France and even UK, caps do exist to check Usurious and predatory lenders. Our entire financial system is predatory and need to be checked through such caps.

this examples you are comparing with a third world economy makes you look a jocker,whats the population's financial ability?like india whats the country's population?billion.....in kenya 40million over 40 banks and Saccos where three quarters of the population is very poor

Hii Copy Pasting itaua watu!!!

Airtel tried to copy paste the Indian model here. @Obi should ask them how that played out.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
sparkly
#90 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 6:20:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Capping is good, very good but if GOK wants to drive a low interest policy in the consumer market, why not drive the policy through GOK owned institutions like NBK, ADC, Development Bank, ICDC.
Life is short. Live passionately.
MaichBlack
#91 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 9:32:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
streetwise wrote:
My take is that the banking industry has shown oligopolistic tendencies and despite all cries they don't listen. Since they are unable to make the decision to accept lower profits like their counter parts in the rest of the world, let’s do what is within our control , CAP the interest rates and then they can come to us with their proposals.

Offering a loan at 24% in is like robbery with violence.


So let’s throw the ball into the banks court and leave it there.


Who told you to take the loan??? This is not your money!! Jipange na pesa yako na you will not complain about interest rates.

You guys are talking as if the money in the bank is your money (the loanee) or is tax money!!

Willing buyer willing seller. If you think the loan is too expensive, stay away (see my opinion in the "Is taking a mortgage the worst decision ever?"). If you feel the banks are paying your peanuts on your deposits, withdraw your money and take it elsewhere (and that is why most of us are in Wazua - to get better ways to put our money to work)

Wacheni kulilia hapa like spoilt kids. Si mnasema kuna Saccos among others!? Na si muende huko!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#92 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 9:44:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
streetwise wrote:
So we need to keep high interest rates to make the rich even richer.

The time has come for us commoners to say NO and NOOOOOO!!.

They take you money , pay you peanuts ( you don't check how risky they of course), then they loan your brother at almost 10 times.

This bounders on fraud


Most major banks are listed in the stock exchange. You don't have to be rich to own a piece of the bank. Take the deposits for which you are being paid peanuts and buy a piece of the bank if you believe the owners are making a killing and getting richer?

Is this rocket science?

The only reason people park money in a bank is lack of ideas! Toa pesa yako!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
obiero
#93 Posted : Friday, July 29, 2016 9:45:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,515
Location: nairobi
lol @maich mortgage ya 7m utapata kwa sacco?? heri bank kuliko sacco

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
alotoftalk
#94 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 2:21:07 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2015
Posts: 138
Location: Harare
The cap is not the biggest problem as this cap won't affect banks in the medium term but rather SMEs, unsecured credit and personal loans.

Banks lend money belonging to depositors, not their own capital. From that perspective, why would any depositor risk they money by lending at a higher risk/ lower rate than rates they can lend to the government on a risk free basis.

A smarter policy would be (1) introduce positive credit reference so as to profile good borrowers that deserve low interest rates (2) to cap government borrowing by limiting how much treasury bonds each bank can buy, (3) introduce discipline in government spending, (4) better bankruptcy, recovery and foreclosure laws. All which are pipe dreams when dealing with a rogue broke government.
Investment philosophy development in progress...
alotoftalk
#95 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 2:32:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2015
Posts: 138
Location: Harare
streetwise wrote:
So we need to keep high interest rates to make the rich even richer.

The time has come for us commoners to say NO and NOOOOOO!!.

They take you money , pay you peanuts ( you don't check how risky they of course), then they loan your brother at almost 10 times.

This bounders on fraud



In reality most deposits don't belong to commoners but to the government, corporates, government agencies and HNWIs.

And banks are doing them a service by collecting their excess money and loaning it to your brother who needs in a market where your brother is competing with a credit hungry government. If I can lend to the GoK at x9, your brother has to offer x10.
Investment philosophy development in progress...
obiero
#96 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 8:01:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,515
Location: nairobi
alotoftalk wrote:
streetwise wrote:
So we need to keep high interest rates to make the rich even richer.

The time has come for us commoners to say NO and NOOOOOO!!.

They take you money , pay you peanuts ( you don't check how risky they of course), then they loan your brother at almost 10 times.

This bounders on fraud



In reality most deposits don't belong to commoners but to the government, corporates, government agencies and HNWIs.

And banks are doing them a service by collecting their excess money and loaning it to your brother who needs in a market where your brother is competing with a credit hungry government. If I can lend to the GoK at x9, your brother has to offer x10.

That is OK, but no developed state has ever been built on high interest rates. Annual margin of profit on a number products/companies does not exceed 20% per year

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#97 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 8:57:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,684
Location: NAIROBI
That is why during NARC and Grand coalition the growth rates were good and effects were being felt by kenyans on their pockets.
Gvt borrowing was low and as a result interest rates also.
There was stability in the job/labour market;companies were hiring instead of down/right sizing as currently is the case.
Corporate profits were growing and default rates low.

For interest rates to reduce my suggestion would be first govt needs to reduce borrowing and cap it at a figure like sh.200bn per year.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
FRM2011
#98 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 10:21:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
We are all focussing on the wrong end of the proposed bill.

Talk to any banker handling corporate clients. 14.5% interest rate is a dream deal they would offer without thinking twice. The big-time syndicated loans, safaricom, kplc, kenya pipeline were all quoted at a floating rate based on 91-day t-bill rate plus a margin not exceeding 2%.

4% above cbr doesn't scare them. What terrifies the banksters, is the deposit rate pegged on 70% of cbr. Take equity bank's interest expense for example. Taken as a percentage of the customer deposit held, it averages 1%-1.5%. Were the new rules to take effect, their interest expense charge would grow at least 5-fold.

I suspect @maichblack knows this and his portfolio is badly exposed.

We know Uhuru won't sign the bill. But a warning shot has been fired.
Mainat
#99 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:50:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Interest rates in Kenya are driven by two key things. GoK borrowing rate and the banking industry's history of loan losses. Right now, I believe npl is around 10%+ which is ridiculously high
Sehemu ndio nyumba
alotoftalk
#100 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 8:39:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2015
Posts: 138
Location: Harare
While we are comparing interest rates in Kenya and the developed world. Let's also remember that they have higher public savings, better laws to address default and above everything else a well developed credit score system.

All which help bring the NPL rates low through either behavior change (credit scores) or default recoveries (laws).
Investment philosophy development in progress...
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