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Stocks vs Buying a house - A tale of two kenyans
The Great
#41 Posted : Thursday, July 14, 2016 10:08:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/9/2015
Posts: 233
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share
"Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own."
obiero
#42 Posted : Thursday, July 14, 2016 10:18:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,549
Location: nairobi
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Othelo
#43 Posted : Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:03:53 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive

How now?
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
maka
#44 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 12:51:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
One day il write an interesting bond story...let me work on it first.
possunt quia posse videntur
Othelo
#45 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 6:26:38 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
maka wrote:
One day il write an interesting bond story...let me work on it first.

@maka enlighten us, don't eat alone. Start a thread on this, what to do to make some monies!!!
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
Horton
#46 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 8:36:31 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
This story is too skewed to favour stocks
1. It assumes an extremely modest growth of 6.5% pa in the price of the apartment.
2. Shows that the apartment is currently yielding only 3% which part of nairobi is yielding this low?


As an example, a property I bought 4 years ago on mortgage from stanchart. Mortgage is at 10.9%, the property has doubled in value and it is now fetching an 11% yield. Therefore rent adequately covers mortgage. And you cant beat double value in 4 years.
MaichBlack
#47 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 10:57:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Othelo wrote:
maka wrote:
One day il write an interesting bond story...let me work on it first.

@maka enlighten us, don't eat alone. Start a thread on this, what to do to make some monies!!!

Maybe he was eaten...

#Transcentury
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
VituVingiSana
#48 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 11:05:49 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive


Liar Liar Liar I averaged the loss down to a positive d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
How now?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#49 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 11:20:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,549
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive


Liar Liar Liar I averaged the loss down to a positive d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
How now?

Diluted my average buying price by mass purchase at lower price than initial sale figure

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Othelo
#50 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 11:47:17 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive


Liar Liar Liar I averaged the loss down to a positive d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
How now?

Diluted my average buying price by mass purchase at lower price than initial sale figure

d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! Liar Liar Shame on you Shame on you Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
MaichBlack
#51 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 12:25:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive


Liar Liar Liar I averaged the loss down to a positive d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
How now?

Diluted my average buying price by mass purchase at lower price than initial sale figure

I am still waiting to hear the POSITIVE part.

You bought KQ sold at a HUGE loss, bought again and the price is currently SOUTH of the new buying price let alone the ORIGINAL higher price which you already took a huge hit on...

Natafuta hiyo POSITIVE and I cannot see it!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
The Great
#52 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 12:53:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/9/2015
Posts: 233
You breaking rule #(I forget) which says "Dont fall in love with a counter or company, mkt momentum, fundamentals and technicals and strategy should be all that guide you". If all you are relying on is hope, retrace your steps plz.
"Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own."
maka
#53 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 12:58:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
Othelo wrote:
maka wrote:
One day il write an interesting bond story...let me work on it first.

@maka enlighten us, don't eat alone. Start a thread on this, what to do to make some monies!!!

Maybe he was eaten...

#Transcentury



Never held a corporate bond in my life...
possunt quia posse videntur
DBLyon
#54 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 12:59:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 149
Location: Nairobi
kiash wrote:
Had not read the post but all in all Kenyan banks scr**w people big time. Apart from charges while accessing your monies , the intrest rates are so high.I will not even complain coz if i were to go to a bank hapa majuu and ask for the same amount in loan i would get an interest rate of kitu 2.5% .I would end up paying about 18 M at the end of 20 yrs while a kenyan will pay more than 36 M more than 20 M in interest peke yake.

There are even countries at the moment like Sweden that have -ve interest rates, sijui kama watakuongeza pesa ukiomba smile
One of the reasons given by Kenyan banks is the job security , but do civil servants enjoy less rates?
No wonder billions in profits is the norm.


Yes, indeed, civil servants enjoy lower rates. Well, not from the banks. From their employer. Actually, bankers enjoy the lowest rates from the bank.
When you live for others' opinions, you are dead.

- Carlos Slim Helu
DBLyon
#55 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 1:07:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 149
Location: Nairobi
Horton wrote:
This story is too skewed to favour stocks
1. It assumes an extremely modest growth of 6.5% pa in the price of the apartment.
2. Shows that the apartment is currently yielding only 3% which part of nairobi is yielding this low?


As an example, a property I bought 4 years ago on mortgage from stanchart. Mortgage is at 10.9%, the property has doubled in value and it is now fetching an 11% yield. Therefore rent adequately covers mortgage. And you cant beat double value in 4 years.


Agreed. I also think that a mortgage is not all bad if you are financially savvy. Especially if you get the right rate like 10.9% from Stanchart.

A property I bought against many people's advice has literally tripled in value in 7 years. The rent pays the mortgage. The rent in that period has also increased significantly by 50%. And I have been able to take small loans against the increased value to do other things. A house is the easiest thing to use as security, at least in this country.
When you live for others' opinions, you are dead.

- Carlos Slim Helu
obiero
#56 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 1:13:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,549
Location: nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive


Liar Liar Liar I averaged the loss down to a positive d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
How now?

Diluted my average buying price by mass purchase at lower price than initial sale figure

I am still waiting to hear the POSITIVE part.

You bought KQ sold at a HUGE loss, bought again and the price is currently SOUTH of the new buying price let alone the ORIGINAL higher price which you already took a huge hit on...

Natafuta hiyo POSITIVE and I cannot see it!!!

Positive ipo. My average buy price on KQ has never risen above KES 7.9.. I sold at KES 6, bought back in a larger holding of 168,000 shares at circa KES 3.90.. Now we are at KES 4.30. Hii hesabu ni ngumu aje

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
MaichBlack
#57 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 1:13:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
maka wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Othelo wrote:
maka wrote:
One day il write an interesting bond story...let me work on it first.

@maka enlighten us, don't eat alone. Start a thread on this, what to do to make some monies!!!

Maybe he was eaten...

#Transcentury



Never held a corporate bond in my life...

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Sema kutoa @Maka pangoni!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
VituVingiSana
#58 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 1:31:25 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
DBLyon wrote:
Horton wrote:
This story is too skewed to favour stocks
1. It assumes an extremely modest growth of 6.5% pa in the price of the apartment.
2. Shows that the apartment is currently yielding only 3% which part of nairobi is yielding this low?


As an example, a property I bought 4 years ago on mortgage from stanchart. Mortgage is at 10.9%, the property has doubled in value and it is now fetching an 11% yield. Therefore rent adequately covers mortgage. And you cant beat double value in 4 years.


Agreed. I also think that a mortgage is not all bad if you are financially savvy. Especially if you get the right rate like 10.9% from Stanchart.

A property I bought against many people's advice has literally tripled in value in 7 years. The rent pays the mortgage. The rent in that period has also increased significantly by 50%. And I have been able to take small loans against the increased value to do other things. A house is the easiest thing to use as security, at least in this country.

Back then...In July 2016
Where can one get a mortgage at 11%? GoK is paying 13% on risk-free bonds. Which bank will lend at anything lower than 13%?
After the price increase 2x for @Horton over 4 years and 3x for @DB in 7 years... will the trend continue?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#59 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 1:38:02 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
kiash wrote:
Had not read the post but all in all Kenyan banks scr**w people big time. Apart from charges while accessing your monies , the intrest rates are so high.I will not even complain coz if i were to go to a bank hapa majuu and ask for the same amount in loan i would get an interest rate of kitu 2.5% .I would end up paying about 18 M at the end of 20 yrs while a kenyan will pay more than 36 M more than 20 M in interest peke yake.

There are even countries at the moment like Sweden that have -ve interest rates, sijui kama watakuongeza pesa ukiomba smile
One of the reasons given by Kenyan banks is the job security , but do civil servants enjoy less rates?
No wonder billions in profits is the norm.

Your government aka GoK is paying the banks a risk-free 13%.
Why would a bank lend to you at anything less than 13%?
Interest rates are -ve in Sweden if you lend to the government not -ve for borrowers.
Until GoK curbs spending significantly more than it collects in taxes do not expect lower interest rates.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
MaichBlack
#60 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 1:40:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
obiero wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
obiero wrote:
The Great wrote:
@Obiero u never left during the short spike in KQ? Insider tip? Do Share

Rhetorical question right there.. Of course I made it out with a shave of KES 250,000 to the negative. I have however averaged the loss down to a positive


Liar Liar Liar I averaged the loss down to a positive d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
How now?

Diluted my average buying price by mass purchase at lower price than initial sale figure

I am still waiting to hear the POSITIVE part.

You bought KQ sold at a HUGE loss, bought again and the price is currently SOUTH of the new buying price let alone the ORIGINAL higher price which you already took a huge hit on...

Natafuta hiyo POSITIVE and I cannot see it!!!

Positive ipo. My average buy price on KQ has never risen above KES 7.9.. I sold at KES 6, bought back in a larger holding of 168,000 shares at circa KES 3.90.. Now we are at KES 4.30. Hii hesabu ni ngumu aje

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

@Obiero - You should consider becoming a fictional writer!!!

You were in the KQ bus ikiwa 30s and 40s LONG BEFORE the rights. All that information iko hapa wazua!!! Ati average buying price ya 7:00/=??? Haki you have jokes. Hata ukiuza KCB ununue KQ, was it anywhere near 7:00/=??? And that was years after you being the lead KQ cheer leader!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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