Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Centum FY2016 div comeback 1/- net profit +25%
Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2015 Posts: 154 Location: Nairobi
|
ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! I agree completely. All salaries, bonuses, etc. are, by definition, "at the expense" of owners. There is always a balance to be struck between who gets what. I think this balance is working, which is why I am an owner. For those of you who are not, Centum's share price has always tracked NAV closely. It is now trading at around 20% less than NAV per share. This is a no-brainer investment. You could be creating wealth for share holders while unfairly stealing from them. Are they employees or fund managers? Centum employees are paid salaries which i can assure are no peanuts and are in tandem with their contributions to the groups growth. I do agree on bonus payment for excellent results but their style of bonus pay is outright thuggery. The bonuses should be a fixed amount or a percentage of their salaries. Awarding bonuses as a percentage of a company's profit can lead to enormous bonus figures and is simply doubling as an employee and a fund manager who are paid management fee based on portfolio returns. Its unfair that bonuses to employees exceeds dividends to all shareholders. As much as the employees credit themselves for the good performance, credit should also go to shareholders for providing the capital. I see these employees becoming bigger than the company one day. To date they have been very similar to fund managers so a fund manager-like bonus system makes sense. A fixed amount bonus does not, it creates no incentive for maximum performance 'just good enough to get the bonus' performance. The hurdle rate model works globally and it looks like it is working at Centum. As the company shifts its focus to more of a conglomerate style group, the bonus system will probably need to be rethought. As for the shareholder credit for providing capital, see my post on the NAV per share relative to market price. The reward will come. The NAV was criticized here as it can easily be manipulated by revaluation of assets like land. Centum has been exiting some of their investments and booking capital gains driving the NAV up. Some of these investments were bought even before some employees joined the company and they are taking credit for them. I would prefer ROA and ROE. You don't like NAV? Fine. Look at ROE and ROA, which are both strong. Use a residual income approach or a relative valuation and you will still come to the conclusion that Centum is undervalued. No matter how you go about running the numbers, you will come to the same conclusion on value.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
|
guru267 wrote:ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:ngapat wrote:researchfirst wrote:guru267 wrote:Management paid themselves a bonus of less than 10% of PBT... What's the big deal? This is the market average isnt it???
This same management has worked their butts off to grow shareholder wealth over the years..
Some cry baby is selling shares because of that... All I say is Sayonara!! I agree completely. All salaries, bonuses, etc. are, by definition, "at the expense" of owners. There is always a balance to be struck between who gets what. I think this balance is working, which is why I am an owner. For those of you who are not, Centum's share price has always tracked NAV closely. It is now trading at around 20% less than NAV per share. This is a no-brainer investment. You could be creating wealth for share holders while unfairly stealing from them. Are they employees or fund managers? Centum employees are paid salaries which i can assure are no peanuts and are in tandem with their contributions to the groups growth. I do agree on bonus payment for excellent results but their style of bonus pay is outright thuggery. The bonuses should be a fixed amount or a percentage of their salaries. Awarding bonuses as a percentage of a company's profit can lead to enormous bonus figures and is simply doubling as an employee and a fund manager who are paid management fee based on portfolio returns. Its unfair that bonuses to employees exceeds dividends to all shareholders. As much as the employees credit themselves for the good performance, credit should also go to shareholders for providing the capital. I see these employees becoming bigger than the company one day. To date they have been very similar to fund managers so a fund manager-like bonus system makes sense. A fixed amount bonus does not, it creates no incentive for maximum performance 'just good enough to get the bonus' performance. The hurdle rate model works globally and it looks like it is working at Centum. As the company shifts its focus to more of a conglomerate style group, the bonus system will probably need to be rethought. As for the shareholder credit for providing capital, see my post on the NAV per share relative to market price. The reward will come. The NAV was criticized here as it can easily be manipulated by revaluation of assets like land. Centum has been exiting some of their investments and booking capital gains driving the NAV up. Some of these investments were bought even before some employees joined the company and they are taking credit for them. I would prefer ROA and ROE. Is it not the current employees who enable Centum to exit its investments at a gain? Both ROA and ROE are good for centum. @guru267 How many Centum shares do you own? John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 884
|
Looks like DJ visits wazua “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
|
DJ has beauties to check for him what's being discussed on wazua Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
|
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,121 Location: Nairobi
|
Ericsson wrote:DJ has beauties to check for him what's being discussed on wazua Sharon Mundia and Susan Wong.  quot; quot; quot; Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
|
Anyone who doesn't think awarding employees a bonus of 1bn last year and 600mn this year is a red flag is either. An employee, naive, blinded by DJ ck moves. This is just an excuse to siphon money out the company in broad daylight!! And legally. Employee are employed to work and get a salary. A bonus if any should be fixed according to you job group if you meet certain very high targets. And should overall be a very small fraction of the profits. It should be an incentive NOT another SALARY! The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
|
Aguytrying wrote:Anyone who doesn't think awarding employees a bonus of 1bn last year and 600mn this year is a red flag is either. An employee, naive, blinded by DJ ck moves.
This is just an excuse to siphon money out the company in broad daylight!! And legally.
Employee are employed to work and get a salary. A bonus if any should be fixed according to you job group if you meet certain very high targets. And should overall be a very small fraction of the profits. It should be an incentive NOT another SALARY! Be careful Aguytrying or guru267 will call you a mourn baby if not crybaby... 
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
|
enyands wrote:Aguytrying wrote:Anyone who doesn't think awarding employees a bonus of 1bn last year and 600mn this year is a red flag is either. An employee, naive, blinded by DJ ck moves.
This is just an excuse to siphon money out the company in broad daylight!! And legally.
Employee are employed to work and get a salary. A bonus if any should be fixed according to you job group if you meet certain very high targets. And should overall be a very small fraction of the profits. It should be an incentive NOT another SALARY! Be careful Aguytrying or guru267 will call you a mourn baby if not crybaby... CK DJ and his Centum cronies are capitalising on the legal loopholes to enrich themselves. This must stop by reviewing company laws. John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
|
|
|
Rank: Hello Joined: 6/15/2016 Posts: 2 Location: Nairobi
|
Salamu kwa wazee, elders and veterans. Anyone knows the book-closure-date for this dividend? Am looking for an exit point. I don't want top be too greedy.... Am already up 64% on capital gains. Its time to harvest!!!! 
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
|
mwanake99 wrote:Salamu kwa wazee, elders and veterans. Anyone knows the book-closure-date for this dividend? Am looking for an exit point. I don't want top be too greedy.... Am already up 64% on capital gains. Its time to harvest!!!! You bought it at around ksh 28 a piece ? Yeah its time .don't be greedy.will research for you in due time
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,297
|
Centum @ 50 today. Calling its godfathers @ 85?
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 8/4/2010 Posts: 8,977
|
Realtreaty wrote:Centum @ 50 today. Calling its godfathers @ 85? Held critical support at 40 handle. Next challenge is to break above solid resistance at 65 handle. But the volume behind the current rally is not convincing. Caution!
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
|
hisah wrote:Realtreaty wrote:Centum @ 50 today. Calling its godfathers @ 85? Held critical support at 40 handle. Next challenge is to break above solid resistance at 65 handle. But the volume behind the current rally is not convincing. Caution!
Boss it is just at that price because of that block trade of 1 mio shares @ 50... possunt quia posse videntur
|
|
|
Rank: Hello Joined: 6/15/2016 Posts: 2 Location: Nairobi
|
enyands wrote:mwanake99 wrote:Salamu kwa wazee, elders and veterans. Anyone knows the book-closure-date for this dividend? Am looking for an exit point. I don't want top be too greedy.... Am already up 64% on capital gains. Its time to harvest!!!! You bought it at around ksh 28 a piece ? Yeah its time .don't be greedy.will research for you in due time Been holding since 2013. Thanks.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,702 Location: NAIROBI
|
CENTUM PUZZLE 1.Centum owns 100% of TRD which owns nothing but 100% of TRLC 2.TRLC assets are nothing but 102 acres in Ruaka plus the development therein 3.The 102 acres plus developments therein are known as Two Rivers 4.In 2014,Centum sells 42% shares in TRD to AVIC & ICDC for a total of $75mn 5.AVIC & ICDC now own & control 42% of TRD assets which are just TRLC or Two Rivers 6.Centum now own& control 58% of TRD assets which are just TRLC or Two Rivers 7.In 2016,TRLC sells 50% of Two Rivers,it's only asset to Old Mutual for $63mn IF true,Centum Inv's investment in a Vision 2030 flagship project dropped from 100% to 29% in >2yrs Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2015 Posts: 138 Location: Harare
|
Ericsson wrote: CENTUM PUZZLE
1.Centum owns 100% of TRD which owns nothing but 100% of TRLC
2.TRLC assets are nothing but 102 acres in Ruaka plus the development therein
3.The 102 acres plus developments therein are known as Two Rivers
4.In 2014,Centum sells 42% shares in TRD to AVIC & ICDC for a total of $75mn
5.AVIC & ICDC now own & control 42% of TRD assets which are just TRLC or Two Rivers
6.Centum now own& control 58% of TRD assets which are just TRLC or Two Rivers
7.In 2016,TRLC sells 50% of Two Rivers,it's only asset to Old Mutual for $63mn
IF true,Centum Inv's investment in a Vision 2030 flagship project dropped from 100% to 29% in >2yrs
You are not accounting for (i) the realized gains over tho two years, (ii) Return on equity, (iii) Deleveraging of Centum's balance sheet. This can be looked at from the view of Zimbabwe's former PM Arthur Mutambara - It's better to own 10% of an elephant, than 100% of a rat." Investment philosophy development in progress...
|
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
|
Next, they will start playing with the Rea Vipingo land  Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,183 Location: nairobi
|
http://kenyanwallstreet....ntums-ksh-200b-amu-power"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
|
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
|
mlennyma wrote:http://kenyanwallstreet.com/africas-largest-bank-to-finance-centums-ksh-200b-amu-power The next phase of Centum growth and development started in earnest!!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Centum FY2016 div comeback 1/- net profit +25%
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|