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Kenya nuclear power programme
enyands
#21 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 1:48:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
chemirocha wrote:
enyands wrote:



Chemirocha with all due respect I clearly understand where you are coming from but I have 4 questions for you :


1 If there happens a leakage like the one that happened in pollman Washington state how would kenya government handle it mr.chemirocha? With all these boreholes people are digging left right and centre???

2 Countries that are managing well the nuclear powers are first world? Kenya do we have technology ? Do we even have courses in colleges about nuclear ?

3 do we have disaster management should there be a crisis of nuclear like japan ?do we?. An unfortunate accident happened in Thika road sometime .a woman had a leg that was cut and she was bleeding . People rushed to see and the went away screaming "huyo amekufa hayuko?" And she was still alive , guess what because of lack of ambulances and mere FIRST AID TRAINING she passed on.Now back to my point ,with this kind of mentality do we have disaster management structures

4 have we exhausted all the available green energies ???

5 kwani usa na Russia ni wajinga when they try to discourage people from doing nuclear?why are they even moving away from nuclear and going green ?

As you advised I have put my emotional feelings aside.answer categorically all these 5 questions with facts and I'll respect your contribution.meanwhile answer them one by one as I have stated ....I'm waiting


Very reasonable questions, I will try my best to answer you.

1. The facility at Pullman Washington State University is a research institution and not explicitly the field of power generation. The way I understand it, the incident involved a leak in the university sewer system and was picked before any damage to human life or the environment. A high standard of safety should be a must if we are to even consider the nuclear route.

2. Developing countries such as South Africa, Pakistan, India, Egypt and former Soviet Union/ Warsaw Pact states such as Ukraine, Romania, Slovakia have run nuclear power plants.

Since 2012, Kenya has been partnering with the International Atomic Energy Agency to train engineers and build capacity. Locally UoN does offer courses in nuclear science at the Masters level. The expertise is definitely there.

3. The biggest disaster from a power generation project was a dam failure in China. Over 100,000 perished and 11 million were displaced. At present there are also fears over the Kariba Dam in Zambia/ Zimbabwe and Mosul Dam in Iraq.

Secondly geothermal power projects have resulted in earthquakes in Switzerland and the United States.

Seven Forks and Olkaria have been running for many years without the fear of catastrophic failure. The point is Kenya has a reasonable level of competency when it comes to managing such complex and high risk projects. Nuclear should not be treated any different.

4. Kenya is presently at its peak capacity with hydroelectric power generation and geothermal capacity is not as promising as the state's ambition of achieving 5000 MW production.

Wind and solar may sound good but they are both expensive and impractical. Remember solar power is unavailable at peak consumer demand which is in the evening and night time.

Another example, the planned Kajiado wind farm is expected to bring a peak 100 MW from a construction cost of 22 billion shillings. Compare with Olkaria III which is expected to produce 110 MW from a construction cost of 3 billion. You be the judge on which is more cost effective.

5. Admittedly the European Union and Japan and strongly against nuclear power generation. The big powers Germany, UK and France intend to completely phase out nuclear power out of safety concerns.

On the other hand, the United States has commissioned nine new nuclear plants in the last ten years alone. Russia and China are also investing billions of dollars to build new nuclear power plants and upgrade existing facilities.


It doesn't matter if the nuclear material is for research or submarine use or nuclear bombs.once they are spent storage becomes a challenge. That's the bottom line . In kenya we don't have enough back up facility to support implementation of nuclear project especially R&D.

I'll finish by saying you have put up a good fight and it's not my wish to outsmart you or you outsmart me, albeit should a human error happen ,we don't have the contigency capacity to contain this . Our environment and ecosystem are too delicate to be exposed to this.

Hope as they implement this idea let it not happen in my county . We are peaceful there and have a vulnerable ecosystem there. Please chemirocha you can welcome those nuclear reactors in your county.for my county I'll use all my available resources to sue the govt and make sure they don't install those reactors there. I can't win fight with govt but I can buy time. I bow out
tycho
#22 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 7:43:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
While it seems that more countries are getting to use nuclear energy, Kenya would appear to face perhaps more challenges and costs in this technology. In fact, it appears that the best countries for this kind of technology would be those with strong manufacturing and technology industries and have large water masses with respect to landmass.

In any case, the decision to invest in this form of energy needs to be supported by adequate research and information to all stakeholders and any such plans should be supported by a clear and robust economic development strategy.
masukuma
#23 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:03:47 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Watu watoe facts in form of numbers sio hadithi! hadithi! toa numbers. Of course we would need our own yucca mountain but the way we live - that would be easy to figure out. Can we stop the nonsense of doing things or stopping to do things because others are doing or not doing things.... that is what your mother warned you about.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#24 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:19:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
Watu watoe facts in form of numbers sio hadithi! hadithi! toa numbers. Of course we would need our own yucca mountain but the way we live - that would be easy to figure out. Can we stop the nonsense of doing things or stopping to do things because others are doing or not doing things.... that is what your mother warned you about.


We ungeanza kutupatia hizo numbers unasema alafu wengine tufuate.
masukuma
#25 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:12:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Watu watoe facts in form of numbers sio hadithi! hadithi! toa numbers. Of course we would need our own yucca mountain but the way we live - that would be easy to figure out. Can we stop the nonsense of doing things or stopping to do things because others are doing or not doing things.... that is what your mother warned you about.


We ungeanza kutupatia hizo numbers unasema alafu wengine tufuate.

i don't need to convince others - i need to be convinced! plus there is always that website I referred you to on a different post.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#26 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:30:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Watu watoe facts in form of numbers sio hadithi! hadithi! toa numbers. Of course we would need our own yucca mountain but the way we live - that would be easy to figure out. Can we stop the nonsense of doing things or stopping to do things because others are doing or not doing things.... that is what your mother warned you about.


We ungeanza kutupatia hizo numbers unasema alafu wengine tufuate.

i don't need to convince others - i need to be convinced! plus there is always that website I referred you to on a different post.


Good. I presume that without being convinced by others, you either don't have any conviction regarding this matter, or the conviction you have is pure 'hadithi' as you call them.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#27 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 10:41:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
masukuma wrote:
enyands wrote:
masukuma wrote:
enyands wrote:
Can someone go on the blue threads and see contribution there. Most people who want it are people who are excited and haven't done well research on nuclear. But people who are anti nuclear are people who have had the chance to travel outside kenya and have seen the effects of nuclear.

Gentleman this is fire you are joking with. Wish you well with this ambition yet you are ignoring abundant green energy in which you are custodian of .

nuclear power is like aircrafts - it's the safest widely used energy source but just has a bad name coz when it goes wrong it kills many. but coal kills more!
Quote:
Fewer than 50 people were reported to have died at Chernobyl; by contrast, the American Lung Association estimates that smoke from coal-fired power plants kills about 13,000 people every year,



Masukuma it's somehow safe for first world .though if you read this Web link here you will understand a state in usa is in trouble because of nuclear waste that they don't know what to do with it

leakage nuclear in usa

Having said that there was a tetenus vaccine going on and it was realised that it was contaminated with hcg hormones or something which is used to birth control.try to imagine your daughter having that vaccine AND HAVING GOVT OFFICIALS COVERING UP the test results!! So drives my question ,,what about nuclear wastes?? Do you think should catastrophe happen the kenyan govt will take measures and responsibilities to stop it from happening again or taking stringent measures ??


You can equate the effects to coal . Something funny is that Kenya is persuing both coal and nuclear. So that will be double death.why can't we exhaust all the green energy then we run to this exorbitant sources of energy?

Masukuma you need to travel man and do your research about nuclear energy in third world countries man.

Now that you mentioned Chernobyl I came across this article. "


The Chernobyl Nuclear disaster is widely considered to have been the worst power plant accident in history, and is one of only two classified as a level 7 event on the International Nuclear Event Scale (the other being the Fukushima, Daiichi disaster in 2011). The battle to contain the contamination and avert a greater catastrophe ultimately involved over 500,000 workers and cost an estimated 18 billion rubles. The official Soviet casualty count of 31 deaths has been disputed and long-term effects such as cancers and deformities are still being accounted for."


Cancer is the word and statement "are still being accounted for"
That's a red flag right there. BTW Effects of chenorbyl will be felt for 20,000 yrs after the disaster happened .just fyi.what about a third world country where transparency is an isssue?? That's my worry and any kenyan with a common sense should worry about .but if you don't have common sense and have rare senses then celebrate .nimewachia hapo.

death from Coal stats dwarf everything you say! As I said... nuclear power is like airtravel - the safest on the planet. it's tragic when it happens but the problem at 3 miles, fukushima and Chernobyl will not be repeated.... if nukes have issues again it will be a fresh issue unlike people dying from the same old problem with coal!

Nuclear is like death by lions or terrorism.... everyone gets to hear the story but in reality mosquitoes will kill tonnes more! Did you know that, if you take every single person killed in a terrorist attack around the world in the last 20 years, and you add all the lives lost in the Middle East since 1967, and you add to that every American life lost in Vietnam, Korea, and every single American engagement since then, Iraq, Afghanistan. If you take all those lives, and you multiply it by 2, that's the number of children who die from malaria in a year. 91% of those deaths are in Africa? stats don't lie... narratives do!


The malaria comparison is whack. I could argue that the deaths are a result of poverty and not even malaria.

This nuclear story is just like the laptop for class 1. The truth is there is a board somewhere that wants to justify allowances, travel spend and g budget allocations.

I don't think the US will even allow Kenya to construct a nuclear plant given our proximity to Somalia.

And yes, they determine which countries develop nuclear technology. Just ask Iran.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Njung'e
#28 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 11:42:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Renewable energy has come way long and I sincerely doubt that, in terms of costs per MW, nuclear energy is any longer cheaper. Close home, the initial cost of LTWP in Lolangaliani was about kshs 17b for 388Mw of power. Would the cost of same size nuclear plant be the same? I really doubt. Yet, even if they were to cost the same, we are agreed the nuclear plant comes with risks,however infetisimal they may be. I am yet to hear of death,accidents or environmental pollution as a result of solar or wind power generation.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
chemirocha
#29 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 12:39:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
Njung'e wrote:
Renewable energy has come way long and I sincerely doubt that, in terms of costs per MW, nuclear energy is any longer cheaper. Close home, the initial cost of LTWP in Lolangaliani was about kshs 17b for 388Mw of power. Would the cost of same size nuclear plant be the same? I really doubt. Yet, even if they were to cost the same, we are agreed the nuclear plant comes with risks,however infetisimal they may be. I am yet to hear of death,accidents or environmental pollution as a result of solar or wind power generation.


Nuclear power generation is infinitely cheaper than wind or photovoltaic (solar) because of economies of scale. Studies as recent as 2015 by the US Energy Information Administration back up that claim.

Safety is the big sticking point in the public eye and even that is an overstated issue. A modern nuclear power plant poses minimal risk to human life or the environment.
Njung'e
#30 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 1:28:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Chemirocha,
According to nuclear-world.org , nuclear compares same as hydro at 0.4 euro cents while wind beats them all at between 0.1 and 0.2 euro cents per kWh. I also see you still hold nuclear energy have minimal risks. How do they compare with those of wind and solar?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
harrydre
#31 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:37:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
We have adequate solar, wind and geothermal power, infact we are exporting some right now and we still have potential for more Geothermal. So why risk nuclear? The fastest way for ugus to wipe us off the map would be that plant.


http://www.thinkgeoenerg...rting-power-to-uganda/?



i.am.back!!!!
masukuma
#32 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 2:52:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
harrydre wrote:
We have adequate solar, wind and geothermal power, infact we are exporting some right now and we still have potential for more Geothermal. So why risk nuclear? The fastest way for ugus to wipe us off the map would be that plant.


http://www.thinkgeoenerg...rting-power-to-uganda/?




We have very very very very very expensive power.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Njung'e
#33 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 3:51:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
harrydre wrote:
We have adequate solar, wind and geothermal power, infact we are exporting some right now and we still have potential for more Geothermal. So why risk nuclear? The fastest way for ugus to wipe us off the map would be that plant.


http://www.thinkgeoenerg...rting-power-to-uganda/?




We have very very very very very expensive power.


Very expensive due to our very own jinga, greedy and skewed policies. You can start by finding out why we pay more than citizens of the rest of the region. Again, if I may, in the absence of a plan to industrialise the country,why would we go for nuclear energy? We are still a country dependent on imports and this won't change soon. See, if I want a blade, a hair comb,a pencil,a pair of socks, all are imported. I want to put it to you that there is no industry that uptakes 15mwh in Kenya currently. The last was Bamburi and Panpaper. One uses coal to fire it's kilns, while the other closed shop.Tenderprenuers consume no power at all. Therefore, energy from your nuclear plant would be to primarily power our TVs,decoders ,charge our gadgets and keep our beers cold. There is more than enough solar for that.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
murchr
#34 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 5:07:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Where will this plant be based? Nyanza?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
wanyee
#35 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 7:25:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
Some brokers a few years back were caught in Nakuru with one of the fuels rods from the Kinshasha reactor ..the panick..of the Mo1 gaarment
hardwood
#36 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 8:14:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Why should a country blessed with so many natural resources, energy resources such as hydro, geothermal, wind, solar etc be contemplating going nuclear? Does this mean we have exhausted the natural resources I've listed?
enyands
#37 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:47:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
murchr wrote:
Where will this plant be based? Nyanza?



Wasilete nyanza please they can take it to masukuma's county .he can help them with disaster management when the shit hits the fan.
Btw why is masukuma only for this nuclear crap?
tycho
#38 Posted : Sunday, June 19, 2016 11:49:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
enyands wrote:
murchr wrote:
Where will this plant be based? Nyanza?



Wasilete nyanza please they can take it to masukuma's county .he can help them with disaster management when the shit hits the fan.
Btw why is masukuma only for this nuclear crap?


Ideas are rarely crap. Energy changes often result in socio-economic change. For example coal powered the industrial revolution to the extent of piling pressure on Europe for new markets and new political institutions.

In the same way, Nuclear energy can give us something like a quantum leap. It all depends on our thinking and strategy.

Maybe @masukuma is thinking along such lines... New sources of energy will enforce positive change.
masukuma
#39 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 12:18:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
enyands wrote:
murchr wrote:
Where will this plant be based? Nyanza?



Wasilete nyanza please they can take it to masukuma's county .he can help them with disaster management when the shit hits the fan.
Btw why is masukuma only for this nuclear crap?

because I have a brain and prefer to process information rather than buy B.S. narratives peddled by fear mongers. Wewe ukiogopa ogopa peke yako!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#40 Posted : Monday, June 20, 2016 12:23:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Njung'e wrote:
masukuma wrote:
harrydre wrote:
We have adequate solar, wind and geothermal power, infact we are exporting some right now and we still have potential for more Geothermal. So why risk nuclear? The fastest way for ugus to wipe us off the map would be that plant.


http://www.thinkgeoenerg...rting-power-to-uganda/?




We have very very very very very expensive power.


Very expensive due to our very own jinga, greedy and skewed policies. You can start by finding out why we pay more than citizens of the rest of the region. Again, if I may, in the absence of a plan to industrialise the country,why would we go for nuclear energy? We are still a country dependent on imports and this won't change soon. See, if I want a blade, a hair comb,a pencil,a pair of socks, all are imported. I want to put it to you that there is no industry that uptakes 15mwh in Kenya currently. The last was Bamburi and Panpaper. One uses coal to fire it's kilns, while the other closed shop.Tenderprenuers consume no power at all. Therefore, energy from your nuclear plant would be to primarily power our TVs,decoders ,charge our gadgets and keep our beers cold. There is more than enough solar for that.

lookup load shedding!! with current power setups you need to chose one or the other! I am typing this msg from country with load shedding currently in place. Cheap power but rationed daily! if you ever have power for 24hrs consider yourself to have no power tomorrow! The reason we have power in the way we do is because we make it worthwhile for the independent power producers.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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