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Kikuyus, Please Come (Here)
Money Whisperer
#171 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2013 12:29:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
Wakanyugi wrote:
Money Whisperer wrote:
The clans/dialect communities' dispersal spelt doom for the Thagichu tribe because the clans grew and attained an identity of their own and the name Thagichu became a distant memory only recollected in oral literature and names. at some point it became derogatory as it gained connotations of backwardness


I am still researching the Thagicu angle. So far my thesis is that this was another dispersion point. According to Were, the Bantu traveled north along the coast, the interior was too hostile. But every time they came to a major river, a group would break off and go up the river while others would remain. The Thagishu could be such a remnant.

The tendency of Gikuyu people to label their past in derogatory terms is well known. The people of Ndia were once labeled dumb (despite the fact that they were the origin of Gikuyu philosophy), the Ndorobo were equally seen as inferior people (remember the Gikuyu name for a poor man is 'Mugiiki' (Ogiek).

You could call it arrogance but I see this tendency as something deeper. A group who are desperate to own an invented narrative of origin, say to justify a land grab from hostile tribes, will do anything to deny their past and emphasize their present right of belonging.

And, lest I be accused - I do not see such adaptability as a bad thing. Just the reverse. History clearly shows that the flexible thrive while those too stiff to bend will eventually break and disappear.

They say history is written by the victors and this means the narratives are biased as they elevate the victors to almost superhuman levels that lead to the birth of legends. It is normal for every community to deride those they have conquered and it not just a Gikuyu peculiarity. The word Ndorobo for example exists in many tribes within Rift Valley and the narrative is the same a group of hunters and gatherers who were great blacksmiths but lacked military strategy and economic force. Most of these were assimilated as clans (aturi in Gikuyu, lkunono in Samburu) but made second class citizens. Among the Samburu for example Lkunono were not allowed to own huge herd of cattle and could not claim ownership of community land.the interesting thing about the Lkunono they charged expensive rates for the spears and swords they made for the mainstream Samburu; so to contain their potential strength the Samburu controlled their wealth and despised their job. Even today a "true" Samburu would dare not touch carpentry, mechanical or any of those artisan professions one main reason why village polytechnic failed to take off in Samburu.
"Money never sleeps"
Mtafiti
#172 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2016 5:20:25 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/22/2014
Posts: 321
Location: Ndeiya
A very resourceful thread this one!!!

sitaki.kujulikana
#173 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2016 6:01:04 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
what is hako
Mtafiti
#174 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2016 6:22:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/22/2014
Posts: 321
Location: Ndeiya
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
what is hako


Fafanua. Which hako? Like "hako ka mtu" or "uuki wa hako", "ngoima ya hako" or in what context?
lexx
#175 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 7:11:13 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/24/2009
Posts: 130
Mtafiti wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
what is hako


Fafanua. Which hako? Like "hako ka mtu" or "uuki wa hako", "ngoima ya hako" or in what context?


Mbúri ya hako?
Swenani
#176 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 8:45:36 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
smile smile smile smile smile

If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
sparkly
#177 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 2:27:20 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Siringi wrote:
tassia wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
jguru wrote:
I have a question.

If Gikuyu was derived from Kamba, how then is it that a person who speaks in the tongue cannot easily comprehend a conversation in Kamba, yet that person can comprehend a conversation in other Bantu languages (Meru, Embu, Kisii, Buganda, Kinyarwanda etc)?

German, Afrikaans, Dutch and English have similarities because they belong to the same language family.

aiiii?

Kikamba is close to Kikuyu. So close that someone who speaks the Kikuyu language can guess a lot of what the Wakamba are saying. The words are just easier or with v sound in place of f sound.

e.g

Kikuyu Kikamba
Witagwo atia Witawa ata
Ndiraigua toro Niiwa too
Njau Nza
Watinda atia? Watinda ata
Wanja Wanza

Some names are also shared without varying pronunciation e.g. Muthama, Munyaka



I agree. But Embu might be the closest language to Kikuyu followed by Kikamba. But I find that language spoken in Rwanda, I guess it's Kinyarwanda closer to Kikuyu than any other language spoken in Kenya especially the counting of numbers.


kisii is very close to kikuyu. sample this:

gikuyu vs ekegusii

tiga vs tiga
toro vs toro
rora vs rora
maitho vs amaiso
mutwe vs motwe
kanua vs monua
mirongo vs merongo
igùrù vs igoro
nyùngù vs nyongo
kùira vs koira
gùkìa vs gokia
ùtùko vs b otuko

most importantly what the two hold dearest

MUGUNDA Vs MOGONDO
the list is endless


Kisii and kimeru are very similar. Kinyarwanda shares separate similarities with Eastern Bantus and Western Bantus. eg bananas are ibitochi in kinyarwanda and igitoche in kisii
Life is short. Live passionately.
masukuma
#178 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 3:04:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
wa P wrote:



"Ndathire ku`rira mwere gatitu` ka mwere
Ngikinya kiura name ikinya kiura gitahutio ... no mention of ithanga.


You are singing the 'sanitized' Kabete version. The Muranga/Metumi version goes liked this:

"Ndathiire kurira mwere gatitu, Ithanga
Ngikinya kiura na ikinya, kiari kia mbarika
Kiurua kianjirire atiri; nginyukia ngwire...."


One question though: are there Nilotes and Cushites any south of Tanzania?


This an interesting thought. I know of no Cushites or Nilotes south of Central Tanzania (there are Nilotes in the north regions).

It seems like this part of Africa was the point of a massive 'clash of civilizations' in the recent past. The Nilotes, Cushites and Haamites arriving from the North, the Sahel and the Arabian peninsula clashed with the Bantu arriving from the South and West.

The result is, us, the strange mixture of peoples, languages and cultures that we are trying to unravel here.

A young historian will one day make a name for herself by focusing on this subject.

this has always been a pet project of mine. My thesis is a bunch of bantus always wanted to go east but if you look the nilotes and cushites have always blocked them. The Maasai to me are more cushitic than nilotic as genetic studies have shown they have 20% ethio-somali makeup. but back to my point. the western side of South Sudan has bantu people who are indistingushable from some kikuyus - the Azande people. their east wards movement was curtailed when they met the Nilotes of Central Equitoria and the Dinkas. Same thing happened in UG and those that managed to cross (possibly before the luos got to the lake) were stopped on their tracks by the groups we call "kalenjin" and to my knowledge no bantu group ever migrated through maasai lands they had to go south and circumvent the maa people then come north. their northern movement was stopped by the cushitic people. some of the traditions these bantus have were actually borrowed from the maa people who in turn borrowed them from the hamitic groups. for example circumcision is not common south of the maasai it's only in pockets here and there.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
sitaki.kujulikana
#179 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:37:58 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
Mtafiti wrote:
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
what is hako


Fafanua. Which hako? Like "hako ka mtu" or "uuki wa hako", "ngoima ya hako" or in what context?

I am sure its not hako ka mtu smile
a guy I know told me they went into the forest for hako, he seemed very passionate and said after that he is now a respected mzee.
wa P
#180 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:39:51 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 326
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
wa P wrote:



"Ndathire ku`rira mwere gatitu` ka mwere
Ngikinya kiura name ikinya kiura gitahutio ... no mention of ithanga.


You are singing the 'sanitized' Kabete version. The Muranga/Metumi version goes liked this:

"Ndathiire kurira mwere gatitu, Ithanga
Ngikinya kiura na ikinya, kiari kia mbarika
Kiurua kianjirire atiri; nginyukia ngwire...."


One question though: are there Nilotes and Cushites any south of Tanzania?


This an interesting thought. I know of no Cushites or Nilotes south of Central Tanzania (there are Nilotes in the north regions).

It seems like this part of Africa was the point of a massive 'clash of civilizations' in the recent past. The Nilotes, Cushites and Haamites arriving from the North, the Sahel and the Arabian peninsula clashed with the Bantu arriving from the South and West.

The result is, us, the strange mixture of peoples, languages and cultures that we are trying to unravel here.

A young historian will one day make a name for herself by focusing on this subject.

this has always been a pet project of mine. My thesis is a bunch of bantus always wanted to go east but if you look the nilotes and cushites have always blocked them. The Maasai to me are more cushitic than nilotic as genetic studies have shown they have 20% ethio-somali makeup. but back to my point. the western side of South Sudan has bantu people who are indistingushable from some kikuyus - the Azande people. their east wards movement was curtailed when they met the Nilotes of Central Equitoria and the Dinkas. Same thing happened in UG and those that managed to cross (possibly before the luos got to the lake) were stopped on their tracks by the groups we call "kalenjin" and to my knowledge no bantu group ever migrated through maasai lands they had to go south and circumvent the maa people then come north. their northern movement was stopped by the cushitic people. some of the traditions these bantus have were actually borrowed from the maa people who in turn borrowed them from the hamitic groups. for example circumcision is not common south of the maasai it's only in pockets here and there.


Your pet project....makes the 2 of us. The assertion that Bantu oriented towards East makes lots of sense. But I think the northward movement was curtailed more by lack of arable land north of mt. Kenya (after mt kenya, the rest of N.E Africa is semi- or desert). Those who went south - if we take dispersal point is tropical forests of central Africa - never encountered a dry schism as they kept S.E trajectory. All the way to the Cape.

Same theory as to why Nilotes and cushites did not venture further south...as there was abundant savanna rangelands (plaine nilotes) and water (river-lake) around the great lakes region. Could 'mfecane' have taken place just as River Nilotes were going round the great lakes curve thus preventing nilotic discovery of the Zambezi?

Human migration is a continous, unstoppable process. Many indicators point to another major wave of movements akin to Euro-American migration 300yrs ago.

When dust settles in next 100 years, methinks major ethnic blocks in the world will be Afro-Chinese (mixed race) and Indians in south east hemisphere incl Pacific, Arab-Turkik in Europe and northern Asia (complete with their religion) as Latino dominates all of America, North and south.
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