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Zombies on the NSE - 2016
Fyatu
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:45:26 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Shafting central....they have changed name to AAI. Sasa hata Wanjiku is confused. She cannot trace where she invested her money...sio Ardan, Sio ADSS, Sio AAI........NSE and CMA yawa!!
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
MaichBlack
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:47:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
Plimsoul wrote:
@MaichBlack
"Does Warren Buffett visit companies or talk to management?

When asked this question during the Annual Meeting of Berkshire Hathaway in 2003, he replied,

“About 40 or 50 years ago, I did a lot of talking to managements. I used to go out and take a trip every now and then and drop in on maybe 15 or 20 companies. I haven’t done that for a long, long time. Today, everything we do, pretty much, I find through public documents.

I try to understand the business and not have any preconceived notions. There is adequate information out there to evaluate a great many businesses.

We do not find it particularly helpful to talk to managements. Managements frequently want to come to Omaha. And they usually have a variety of reasons why they say they want to talk to me. But what they’re really hoping is that we get interested in their stock. And that never works.

The managements are not the best reporting parties in most cases. The figures tell us more than management. So we do not spend any real amount of time talking to management. Before we buy a business, we look at the record to determine what the management’s like."

http://knowledge.conscio...r+talk+to+management%3F

This is not to say he would have invested in Uchumi. Just defending the use of public records.

You are comparing public information and documents in the US to those in Kenya???

You can trust the information and documents in the US because of the law and implementation of the law in the US. It is very expensive and dangerous lie in the US. A single lie or creative accounting can land you in jail for more than 20 years! I will get you examples in the course of the day.

In Kenya, you lie and go on with life. How many are in prison because of Uchumi, Mumias, Kenya Airways etc.? In most cases there is even no talk or push to have people in prison let alone actually having them there!!!

And you are actually contradicting yourself. Warren Buffet says "Management are not the best reporting parties". An information memorandum is primarily authored by whom???? Buffet is talking about publicly available information (Like we all [apart from Jamii Bora apparently] had on Uchumi) not an Information Memorandum authored by the management!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
enyands
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 4:49:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
@MaichBlack
"Does Warren Buffett visit companies or talk to management?

When asked this question during the Annual Meeting of Berkshire Hathaway in 2003, he replied,

“About 40 or 50 years ago, I did a lot of talking to managements. I used to go out and take a trip every now and then and drop in on maybe 15 or 20 companies. I haven’t done that for a long, long time. Today, everything we do, pretty much, I find through public documents.

I try to understand the business and not have any preconceived notions. There is adequate information out there to evaluate a great many businesses.

We do not find it particularly helpful to talk to managements. Managements frequently want to come to Omaha. And they usually have a variety of reasons why they say they want to talk to me. But what they’re really hoping is that we get interested in their stock. And that never works.

The managements are not the best reporting parties in most cases. The figures tell us more than management. So we do not spend any real amount of time talking to management. Before we buy a business, we look at the record to determine what the management’s like."

http://knowledge.conscio...r+talk+to+management%3F

This is not to say he would have invested in Uchumi. Just defending the use of public records.

You are comparing public information and documents in the US to those in Kenya???

You can trust the information and documents in the US because of the law and implementation of the law in the US. It is very expensive and dangerous lie in the US. A single lie or creative accounting can land you in jail for more than 20 years! I will get you examples in the course of the day. Eg enron former CEO jailed for life for misreporting and lying to investors, former Chicago govornor jailed for some years for trying to sell sent or Obama senatorial seat, former Oregon govornor ejected from office for JUST HAVING A CLANDE, bill Clinton almost got impeached for lying under oath on papers for having clande- my point is if just having a clande can land you in jail how about lying financial reports ???

In Kenya, you lie and go on with life. How many are in prison because of Uchumi, Mumias, Kenya Airways etc.? In most cases there is even no talk or push to have people in prison let alone actually having them there!!! to be precise they get rewarded to plum jobs .look at Ciano he was the disciplinary committee for uchumi or something after downing uchumi through ICDC, Naikuni is a board member in one of the parastatal ,DJ with his uchumi bleeding is a board somewhere and owns one of lucrative businesses untouched,former nys boss almost became a govornor of there would have been successful impeachment of current govornor in Tonui case, Chris Okemo of jersey scandal is a board member somewhere despite having stay warrant to go to UK islands. ... the list goes on and on

And you are actually contradicting yourself. Warren Buffet says "Management are not the best reporting parties". An information memorandum is primarily authored by whom???? Buffet is talking about publicly available information (Like we all [apart from Jamii Bora apparently] had on Uchumi) not an Information Memorandum authored by the management!!!

obiero
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 5:08:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,782
Location: nairobi
Spikes wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!

KQ has more assets than Equity. This is a zombie thread

COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
kediveKed
#25 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 5:31:22 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/28/2016
Posts: 37
Location: nairobi
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?


The ceo or jamii bora should stop crying that they were conned and just sue Cma, uchumi for falsifying public documents. I know very many cases in England with similar facts to this.
MaichBlack
#26 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:21:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
obiero wrote:
Spikes wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!

KQ has more assets than Equity. This is a zombie thread

Assets don't count for sh!t if they are outstripped by liabilities. That is taught in class 4 I think!!!

@Obiero

Person A has assets worth 10m and liabilities worth 25m.

Person B has assets worth 200k and liabilities worth 5k.

Who is richer? Who would you rather be???
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
obiero
#27 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:25:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,782
Location: nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
Spikes wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!

KQ has more assets than Equity. This is a zombie thread

Assets don't count for sh!t if they are outstripped by liabilities. That is taught in class 4 I think!!!

@Obiero

Person A has assets worth 10m and liabilities worth 25m.

Person B has assets worth 200k and liabilities worth 5k.

Who is richer? Who would you rather be???

hmm.. I would prefer person A since the debt can be cleared at some point, kila mtu yuko na deni. huyu wa 200k si anaishi kibanda jameni.. heri assets mingi! ;)

COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
MaichBlack
#28 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:27:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
obiero wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
Spikes wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!

KQ has more assets than Equity. This is a zombie thread

Assets don't count for sh!t if they are outstripped by liabilities. That is taught in class 4 I think!!!

@Obiero

Person A has assets worth 10m and liabilities worth 25m.

Person B has assets worth 200k and liabilities worth 5k.

Who is richer? Who would you rather be???

hmm.. I would prefer person A since the debt can be cleared at some point, kila mtu yuko na deni

Woi!!! Sawa!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
obiero
#29 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:32:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,782
Location: nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
Spikes wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!

KQ has more assets than Equity. This is a zombie thread

Assets don't count for sh!t if they are outstripped by liabilities. That is taught in class 4 I think!!!

@Obiero

Person A has assets worth 10m and liabilities worth 25m.

Person B has assets worth 200k and liabilities worth 5k.

Who is richer? Who would you rather be???

hmm.. I would prefer person A since the debt can be cleared at some point, kila mtu yuko na deni. huyu wa 200k si anaishi kibandani jameni
heri assets mingi ;)

Woi!!! Sawa!

Unamaka! Hivo ndio wakenya huishi. madeni ni sisi

COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
VituVingiSana
#30 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:34:49 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,224
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
obiero wrote:
Spikes wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!

KQ has more assets than Equity. This is a zombie thread

Assets don't count for sh!t if they are outstripped by liabilities. That is taught in class 4 I think!!!

@Obiero

Person A has assets worth 10m and liabilities worth 25m.

Person B has assets worth 200k and liabilities worth 5k.

Who is richer? Who would you rather be???

@MaichBlack - Stop arguing with @Obiero coz you will lose. Unlike other KQ shareholders, it seems he benefits from "perks" like upgrades to Business Class, etc. In true Kenyan fashion, he is simply being a shill.

@Obiero cannot even honestly answer my questions.

The good news is that I Applause Applause Applause that I sold off my KQ in 2012 at 13+ & re-invested the money in KK, KenRe, etc. I would like to see Naikuni, Mbugua, the "Mawingu Board", etc go to jail but I am a realist. None of them will go to jail for economic crimes.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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