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Question for a4architect
Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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@ Pablo, I am sure you can shed some light to my dilemma. I have been agonizing whether to do a concrete tank or just buy the plastic ones. Can you shed some light on the lifespan of the concrete tank vis a vis the plastic one? How much did it cost to do the 60,000 litre underground tank? Does anyone have information on how the plastic septic tanks compare to concrete ones in Kenya as regards cost and lifespans? They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/17/2008 Posts: 567 Location: Nairobi
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@ Vin
Possibly it would be better to do the house in stages. I.e. gather enough for your foundation then take time to regroup. Once well rested do your walls and rest again. That way until you’re done with roofing and finally finishing.
Your problem would be when to know how much to accumulate for a particular phase.
For walling use the following – 1 fundi (with two kyms) can do 80 - 120ft of walling per day. During that period they will use 1 bag of cement. Based on the mixture ratio you can estimate how much your walling will be.
I.e Your hse is 1,400 sq ft meaning the perimeter would be about 160ft. for 9 courses that comes to 1440ft. Interior walling could be another say 600ft. Total 2000ft.
If your fundi does even say an average of 80ft per day then 2000ft needs 25 fundi days i.e. 25 bags of cement (@740 per bag = 18,500. Add to that a lorry (18-20 tons) of sand @22k and Water. Labour would cost you 25 x 600/- (fundi) + 25 x 600/- (2 Kyms) = 30,000/-. Add the cost of stones and a few other things incl. an engineer to check the work (@3k per visit)
You can see your walling will cost you about
Stones - 44,000/- i.e (22/- x 2000 your fundi can give you a better estimate, Machine cut)
Stones - 30,000 Transport from the Quarry @
15/- per stone
Cement – 18,500
Sand - 22,000
Water - Depends
Labour - 30,000
Eng/Arc - 10,000
Total 154,500
Add about 10% for hoop irons & ring beam (just before the roof)
I am not claiming to be an expert but even if I am 10% wrong you can still see how cheap it is!! – These are the houses your developers sell to you for 3.2M.
@Tom Boy
A 24k water Roto tank is costs 205k (VAT Incl.). To get 60K litres you need 2.5 of these which will cost you 512k. My problem with these is that they are really huge tanks and do not look good in a manicured compound. The one I have cost me about 280k.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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Pablo....I have to thank you for the good work to are doing here...you may not realise it.... Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 34
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@Pablo,
thanks for sharing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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@Pablo,
Great info....How would you go about cleaning the underground tank once sediments have accumulated at the bottom?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2,436
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@Pablo.. an easy one
what stones would u recommend to build with - machine cut stones or the kawa ones that have to be chongwad into good shape?
Because someone told me that machine-cut stones may have water- seepage/ paint-flaking issues and I would like to be sure. Pray tell
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/17/2008 Posts: 567 Location: Nairobi
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@Chaka
The tank was designed with a shallow conical base to allow any sediments to move to the edges. However there is no shortcut, the tank can only be cleaned when empty, possibly once every 3 or so years. What I concentrated on is ensuring the feeder piping from the roof has several dirt trappers and sieves to prevent the the silt from flowing in.
@intelligensia
What you were told is partially true. I fell into that trap and lost 42,000/- on my first batch of 2,000 stones. They were too weak. Talk of Expensive lessons.
However at the quarry the deeper you go from the ground the harder the stones are. When they conned me, I selected the stones and took off leaving them to deliver. They switched the stones and arrived at my site at 8pm blaming Jam on Thika Rd. My site guy confirmed the stones have arrived and I sent Mpesa. In the morning I was disapointed half were broken on unloading.
I got much harder machine cuts after that lesson and am happy with them. However for building the tank you need extremely hard stones. Machine cuts are not suitable here.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2007 Posts: 337
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@pablo.Thanks men.you really make mountains seem like mole hills Ubarikiwe saana for your insightful information. Advice is like snow.The softer it lands the harder is sticks.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2,436
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Thanks Pablo.
just a few tips that cost me dearly when doing some construction:
- pay per task rather than per day. I paid per day and the buggers would work slowly, taking generous breaks every short while. Later on when wiser, I would allocate a task, give the kym my number to call when through and disappear to do my own stuff.But note some stages need close supervision,
- as far as possible buy the materials and ferry them to the site under close supervision. In the same project I once bought abt 7 bags of cement and asked the kyms to take them to the site as I cleared on some steel issues with the hardware guy. On arrival at the site I found the combined cement a bit too kidogo bt on enquiry was told those were th full 7 bags. I dem,anded for the cement bags but they pointed to a fire burning the cement bags a few mtrs away. I couldn't do anything coz they had deliberately set the cement bags on fire to frustrate any attempts of determining how many bags of cement had arrived at the site. Thye were burning the evidence.I came to learn much later that I lost 2 bags along the way between the hardware guy and the site.
Nikachanuka.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/5/2010 Posts: 273 Location: NBI
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where did a4Architect go?
pablo thanks for the info
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/7/2010 Posts: 130
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Great stuff guys!
it seems there is no shortage of tricks to skim away from potential home burners opting for own construction.
Which is best source of sand for construction? I have heard there is a bagful of tricks here as well....eg. pouring water on the sand whilst still on the lorry only to be told that's its the best sand from the river bed of river so and so...and that's why its wet!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/24/2008 Posts: 781
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@wasee, Cant u see? It has become Question for Mr.Pablo. Thanks man,this is the most valuable thread I have ever read in Wazua. The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
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Yea ...had to print and file some Pablo's replies ...just in case Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/11/2008 Posts: 121
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@ Vin If you can,avoid leaving the walls & floor slab exposed for long rainy seasons.i.e march- july to minimize damage by rain water. Plan to do roofing during the dry season(dec-late feb)It's a plus because u normally get better timber and minimize incidents of timber trusses warping...my 2 cents Less is more....for Architects only!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/16/2008 Posts: 111
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@Sheep
Quite true. Pablo has been very generous with information/advise. We've learned a lot from his experience. Am now raring to go and when i get the experience, i will also help the "next generation".
@Kishindo
Good to see you back. I almost thought all professionals in construction had taken off
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2007 Posts: 337
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@kishondo thanks and your point is taken.Have a wonderful weekend and all of you who have give rather a very expensive information elsewhere to your fellow wazuans. Advice is like snow.The softer it lands the harder is sticks.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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@Pablo, great work keep it up. A few issues you have forgotten:
1. Props and timber for form work.
2. Trappers
3. Bar bending labour as separate from walling labour.
- I have a project in Kitengela, a a few tricks on labour: When doing the walling use Pablo method, for the chuma work sub contract, for form work (i.e timber to support the slab), use sub contract and for the actual slabbing (koroga) tumia do sub contract. Have your foreman to oversee.
- When the issue of quality of workmanship is important, there are fundis who specialize in all areas, from trenching to koroga. For instance my slab area is 510.5 square metres and costs me 40k for koroga, timber work 15k, 35k for bar bending (chuma).
- To avoid costly lessons when slabbing esp on quality and consequence of poor work, it is highly recommended that you be sure abt the fundis doing the job.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/17/2008 Posts: 567 Location: Nairobi
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Actually yes. There is quite some timber and chuma work to be done before koroga. For me Koroga guys are the worst guys you can deal with. Theyll open all your cement bags and then go on strike for double pay. Let someone else handle it.
Boss ati your slab was how big?
Hiyo ni nyumba ama factory?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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@Pablo, pole the area is 150.5.
Never attempt to deal with koroga guys as a mob - which they are. I have an excellent guy (my engineer took him to do some sites), and was full of good words of him. The same to the chuma guy.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/6/2010 Posts: 8 Location: nairobi
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@raha, useful stuff guys.
can you publish the contacts for the reliable chuma and koroga guys.thanks.
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