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Why Kenyans cannot ignore the Somali Qstn
Intelligentsia
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:24:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Note this is not about Kenya Somalis but Somali Somalis...
1)Somalis make a sizable %age of students in some uni. classes, across almost all faculties – sometimes as high as 60%. Even in other lower classes/colleges. Meaning in 5-10 years they will occupy top leadership positions in the govt, corporate and other critical policy-making bodies.
2)Investments by Somalis in Nbi real estate (commercial and residential) industry runs into billions of shillings in Eastleigh, South C as well as other upper-class suburbs of Nbi,
3)One reason GoK has failed to release last census’ results, is reportedly because the population of persons of Somali thnicity have grown so substantially that it can only be from naturalization & but mostly immigration, but not by birth. Hence, the recent GoK requirement that children now being admitted into public schools have birth certificates to curb illegal immigration.
4) It is common knowledge among Kenyans that many more Somalis hold illegal IDs. These are/will register as voters,
5) Somalis were part of the crowd of demonstrators where, for the first time in Kenya demonstrators used a gun to attack security officers. Al Shabab flag was waved,
6)According to a recent investigation by the UN Monitoring Group and reported by the East African, hundreds of Kenyan Somali youth trained at Manyani in Kenya are now fighting on both sides of the Somali conflict i.e. on the side of the TFG and some on the side of Al- Shabbab? If we go by the history of Afghanistan, for instance, where CIA-backed Mujahideens fought against the Soviets and later turned on the Americans in a protracted war upto today, then these youths are likely to come back home and use their experience to instigate plan and execute a parallel insurgency right here in Kenya if not demobilized and given alternative means of livelihood
masukuma
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:17:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Kenyans are joking!!! now after the constitution passes, any 8 year old Somali found in kenya without parents will be considered Kenyan.
its called massive Immigration.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
callaspade
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:34:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 925
...alot of people are shouting YES YES YES and have not read the draft.
......if i go to buy a new car from the showroom,does the salesman say "hiyo taa mbaya na drive shaft tutachange later,buy the car first"
.....No is No is No...i will wait for a month to have them ship a new car...period
.....WE HAVE BEEN fighting FOR 20 YEARS + FOR THIS DOCUMENT YET ISSUEs/CLAUSES LIKE THESE WE CANT TAKE A MONTH TO AMEND??????
....I will die standing,not on my knees.
masukuma
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:53:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@callaspade, well said!! people are busy instilling guilt on your consciences by saying "ooh!...its the best constitution we have had so far...ooh! we are throwing out the baby with the bath water....ooh!! we can do the amendments after the draft is passed"
not mentioning that some of these changes require a referendum!!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
poundfoolish
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:07:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
callaspade..

you are ready for war?
callaspade
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:10:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 925
@MASKUMS...picture this....the so called experts went round collecting peoples views.....
15% muslims and 85% christians...All Kenya i presume.
....who told them we need the kadhi courts entrenched in the constitution?? the majority or minority??.... and the views in the draft regarding this issue.... are they representative of the majority.... who is what the draft is for??
...now,i believe they were receiving views from adults,even through mail.....who told them that 8 year olds need to have a birth certificate and become Kenya??huh.THE KIDS OR THE PARENTS ???
...money Must have exchanged hands good people.....stop this crap of its the best bla bla bla.
dossy7
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:10:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,491
Location: Nairobi
i do think the somalis are a substantial number in our country regardless of how they acquired there ids we must be worried cause soon enough kenya will be absolved and we join ranks with somalia hence our capital city will be mogadishu just wait and see
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
callaspade
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:15:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 925
@poundfoolish....am not that foolish...thats why am giving some food for thought 10 years from now.
.....please use a cd when you can,dont scratch your balls 10 years from now.
nostoppingthis
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:19:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
The Muslim religion is
the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States ,
Especially in the minority races!!!


Allah or The Lord Jesus Christ? ... By Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.... The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for Questions and Answers.
When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and Clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'non-believers! ' I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers Of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'
He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.' I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'
The Imam was speechless! I continued, 'I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask You a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U...S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader In prison ministry. The man who walks with God always gets to his destination... If you have a pulse you have a purpose.
Rahatupu
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:20:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
@intelligensia, the current government is full of activists who had never been in management positions before and they are responsible for relaxing some otherwise stringent security measures. For instance the disbanding of the Special branch was ill advised. The relaxation of strict vetting procedures in the name of efficiency was ill advised. The deplorable state of the immigration departments capacity has been exacerbated by for instance relaxing visa requirements and even the visa fees.

What is the effect of the above? Specific security apparatus and systems have been disabled due to poor judgment, and activist inclination of security managers. The Somali influx is a case in point. The gov't heeded UNHCR and UN (both are NGO inclined bodies) advise to relax its previous hardline against Somalis entering from Somalia. Now they are not part of the problem.
masukuma
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:30:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Kenya is in problems and the worst part is...we don't even know it!!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tony stark
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 3:01:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
@ intelligensia this is an interesting topic. Your discussion points to Somalis as a problem?? I wonder why!
From all the points above I am afraid to conclude that
1. Wazua us full of hard core radicalist who assume that somalis are not Kenyans and should not be considered as Kenyans
2. I am very afraid to think that this is what Kenyans think.
We complain about tribalism and some Somalis are Kenyans also. But the xenophobia exhibited to them is never tempered.

The Somali question should not be how to get them out of Kenya or how to completely close our borders which are both very difficult and nearly impossible.
The Somali question should be how to bring Peace to Somali that is important to us in economic terms, migration and as Kenyans role as the leader in East African and Africa in general.
Kenya should bring the Somali issues to the world arena and be a leader in speaking out for their cause. The Arabs don't seem to care about Somali the Americans dont give a rats ass what happens there and the UN only gives a shit about the somali pirates.
If all the problems that intelligensia has highlighted the only way to deal with this issues is not locally but internationally and in Somali.

B.Timer
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 3:22:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

Kenya's internal problem can only be sorted by ourselves.
We shouldnt fear to talk about and face the matter head on.
Those Somali who sneaked into the country illegally need to be asked to leave, or forced out.

Reciting poetry to a swords man has never worked, you got to face him with a sharper sword, for that is the only language he understands.
Dunia ni msongamano..
Waria
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:46:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/11/2007
Posts: 213
Why Kenyans cannot ignore the Kikuyu Qstn

Wazua=Mashada

You heard it here first!
wazua
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:41:04 PM
Rank: Administration


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 679
Dear Members,

We believe Wazua can express diverse opinions respectfully. If emotions override restraint as relates to our ongoing constitutional debates, we will have no option but to intervene.

@Waria, you are a respected and treasured member of the community. Your comments are noted and we urge you to continue participating.

Welcome to Wazua
tony stark
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:36:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
B.Timer wrote:

Kenya's internal problem can only be sorted by ourselves.
We shouldnt fear to talk about and face the matter head on.
Those Somali who sneaked into the country illegally need to be asked to leave, or forced out.


What internal problem! Its an external Problem. The Somali who are not Kenyans are leaving somali because its in the shite. They are not coming to Kenya because it is the land of milk and honey!!

The somali immigrants and the Kenyan born somali are indistinguishable from each other. How can you tell the difference.

When the shiftas tried to secede we vehemently fought but now we dont want to accept somalis as Kenyans. When the chinese find oil in chalbi desert we will all be clamouring for our "kenyan" share.

We are a bunch of hypocrites. I hope it's only in Wazua and not the whole of Kenya.
masukuma
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:08:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@ironman, what are you proposing as a solution?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
poundfoolish
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:33:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
people should read on rightist/far right: leftists/extreme left...

The world as it is right now is facing threats from the Far Rights..
Who mostly tend to tie their arguments with religion..

this groups include the AlShabaabs, the Alqaedas, Army of 'god' the KKK etc..

Since Obama and Osama.. the far right groups and feelings have been stirred into motion and action..

Situation explosive
bkismat
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:37:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
I dont care whether im an extreme rightist or leftist or radical or xenophobic. all somali somalis should be rounded up and given a one way ticket back to somalia. and about their industriousnessb blah blah blah. yes they can take it back to mogadishu and develop it. dont mess with ur country then come and want to mess mine.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
Intelligentsia
#20 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:39:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Guys plse note the thrust of this thread is about Somalia's Somalis and not Kenya Somalis some of whom have made great significant contributions to the country eg Heads of IIEC, the PSC, and the COE all currently headed by Kenya Somalis. So was a former CGS General M.Mohammed who routed the KAF rebels in '82 and helped mo1 stay in power...(on reflection maybe angewacha tu lol. Unfortunately or not it is hard to distinguish between the two Somalis, just as it is hard to distinguish a Kenyan Indian or an 'original' one from India until they speak! vat ur saying?! So kenyans just lump all together.
I have therefore slightly amended this fact in the main thread to put the discussion in proper perspective and as a guide to new pips coming to this thread.
The issue of foreigners/immigrants is sensitive world over and I would rather we discuss this than resort to the cheap baseline thinking/ abuses also ssociated with killings of foreigners witnessed globally eg skin heads in Russsia/German who go hunting for foreigners like animals. I for one would really want to get the perspective of Kenya somalis on the immigrant somalis, just as kenyan indians have made it clear how hey feel about indian expatriate by calling them 'rockets'.
We are not xenophobic but cannot pretend not to see the effects of immigrants on our social,cultural an fabric. Lets enlighten each other.

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