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Jubilee Insurance Group FY 2015 earnings up 5%
muganda
#1 Posted : Thursday, March 31, 2016 4:02:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
guru267
#2 Posted : Thursday, March 31, 2016 4:14:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
More accounting tricks here to hide NSE losses.

But in the end... only market sentiment matters and all Wanjiku has heard is that profits are up!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#3 Posted : Thursday, March 31, 2016 11:40:09 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
More accounting tricks here to hide NSE losses.

But in the end... only market sentiment matters and all Wanjiku has heard is that profits are up!

How about providing specifics by line item and what's the 'accounting trick' used so we can learn from you.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Gatheuzi
#4 Posted : Friday, April 01, 2016 8:02:43 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
More accounting tricks here to hide NSE losses.

But in the end... only market sentiment matters and all Wanjiku has heard is that profits are up!

How about providing specifics by line item and what's the 'accounting trick' used so we can learn from you.

Post #14 @ 18
guru267 wrote:
IFRS recognises various accounting policies and estimation methods for accounting items.

It all depends on the opinion you hold as long it does not compromise on the true and fair view of the company's position.

In this case these accounting tricks are not immediately apparent to Wanjiku and therefore Kenya re and Jubilee enjoy more stable share prices compared to other insurers IFRS recognises various accounting policies and estimation methods for accounting items.

It all depends on the opinion you hold as long it does not compromise on the true and fair view of the company's position.

In this case these accounting tricks are not immediately apparent to Wanjiku and therefore Kenya re and Jubilee enjoy more stable share prices compared to other insurers
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
VituVingiSana
#5 Posted : Friday, April 01, 2016 9:49:37 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
Gatheuzi wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
More accounting tricks here to hide NSE losses.

But in the end... only market sentiment matters and all Wanjiku has heard is that profits are up!

How about providing specifics by line item and what's the 'accounting trick' used so we can learn from you.

Post #14 @ 18
guru267 wrote:
IFRS recognises various accounting policies and estimation methods for accounting items.

It all depends on the opinion you hold as long it does not compromise on the true and fair view of the company's position.

In this case these accounting tricks are not immediately apparent to Wanjiku and therefore Kenya re and Jubilee enjoy more stable share prices compared to other insurers IFRS recognises various accounting policies and estimation methods for accounting items.

It all depends on the opinion you hold as long it does not compromise on the true and fair view of the company's position.

In this case these accounting tricks are not immediately apparent to Wanjiku and therefore Kenya re and Jubilee enjoy more stable share prices compared to other insurers


@Gathuezi: Are there any specific accounting tricks [and reference to the line items] in that general statement?

Guru: Please include the line item, and which IFRS rule (or trick) as well as how it has been misused. Then what do you think the true number is.

I want to learn where to spot the fraud/tricks/sleight of hand.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
muganda
#6 Posted : Friday, April 01, 2016 11:46:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
muganda wrote:

The results appear to be supported by the 4.3bn gain from reduced insurance commissions/claims

Profit and Loss
–15% Investment income: for-sale financial assets, equities, trading positions
–30% Associates share of profit: IPS/Bujagali/Seacom

Comprehensive income
–166% Not for sale quoted equities/investment properties/unquoted shares, currency translation effect

streetwise
#7 Posted : Friday, April 01, 2016 11:48:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
Looks like 2015 was a tough year for every one
Gatheuzi
#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2016 12:14:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/16/2009
Posts: 994
VituVingiSana wrote:
Gatheuzi wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
guru267 wrote:
More accounting tricks here to hide NSE losses.

But in the end... only market sentiment matters and all Wanjiku has heard is that profits are up!

How about providing specifics by line item and what's the 'accounting trick' used so we can learn from you.

Post #14 @ 18
guru267 wrote:
IFRS recognises various accounting policies and estimation methods for accounting items.

It all depends on the opinion you hold as long it does not compromise on the true and fair view of the company's position.

In this case these accounting tricks are not immediately apparent to Wanjiku and therefore Kenya re and Jubilee enjoy more stable share prices compared to other insurers IFRS recognises various accounting policies and estimation methods for accounting items.


@Gathuezi: Are there any specific accounting tricks [and reference to the line items] in that general statement?

Guru: Please include the line item, and which IFRS rule (or trick) as well as how it has been misused. Then what do you think the true number is.

I want to learn where to spot the fraud/tricks/sleight of hand.


@vvs, not tricks that I can trace. I was only quoting @guru on her comments from KRe threadsmile .

Anyway this is what I Know about Financial Instruments: Recognition and Measurement, IAS 39 (and will be largely replaced by IFRS 9 Financial Instruments for annual periods beginning on or after 1 January 2018.)

However Jubilee opted for an earlier adoption of IFRS 9 (Refer to Page 75; Points 37.71)

Page 75; Point 37.71 of 2014 JhL Annual Report wrote:
The Group early adopted IFRS 9 Financial Instruments part 1: classification and measurement (IFRS 9) in 2009 in advance of its effective
date. The standard replaced parts of IAS 39 relating to classification and measurement of financial assets.




Classification of financial assets

IFRS 9
divides all financial assets that are currently in the scope of IAS 39 into two classifications - those measured at amortised cost and those measured at fair value.

Where assets are measured at fair value, gains and losses are either recognised entirely in profit or loss (fair value through profit or loss, FVTPL), or recognised in other comprehensive income (fair value through other comprehensive income, FVTOCI)

The classification of a financial asset is made at the time it is initially recognised, namely when the entity becomes a party to the contractual provisions of the instrument. [IFRS 9, paragraph 4.1.1] If certain conditions are met, the classification of an asset may subsequently need to be reclassified.

Fair value option
Even if an instrument meets the two requirements to be measured at amortised cost or FVTOCI, IFRS 9 contains an option to designate, at initial recognition, a financial asset as measured at FVTPL if doing so eliminates or significantly reduces a measurement or recognition inconsistency (sometimes referred to as a 'accounting mismatch'){added-not accounting trick Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly } that would otherwise arise from measuring assets or liabilities or recognising the gains and losses on them on different bases. [IFRS 9, paragraph 4.1.5]

'Other comprehensive income' option
If an equity investment is not held for trading, an entity can make an irrevocable election at initial recognition to measure it at FVTOCI with only dividend income recognised in profit or loss. [IFRS 9, paragraph 5.7.5]

For Jubilee reading 2014 financial report, I note that;
1)1.2B was passed through income statement "Net fair value gains on financial assets at fair value through profit or loss";(read also notes 18 and 19 to see that out of this amount ..)
2) 225M was passed through comprehensive income as "Net fair value gains on financial assets"

Then this is the summary of Jubilee's option under IFRS 9;

Page 75; Point 37.1 wrote:
The key features of the Standard are:
• Financial assets are required to be classified into two measurement categories: those to be measured subsequently at fair value, and
those to be measured subsequently at amortised cost. The decision is to be made at initial recognition. The classification is based on
contractual cash flow characteristics of the instrument.
• An instrument is subsequently measured at amortised cost only if it is a debt instrument and both the objective of the entity’s business
model is to hold the asset to collect the contractual cash flows, and the asset’s contractual cash flows represent only payments of principal
and interest (that is, it has only ‘basic loan features’). All other debt instruments are to be measured at fair value through profit or loss.
All equity instruments are to be measured subsequently at fair value. Equity instruments that are held for trading will be measured at
fair value through profit or loss. For all other equity investments, an irrevocable election can be made at initial recognition, to recognize
unrealized and realized fair value gains and losses through other comprehensive income rather than profit or loss. There is to be no
recycling of fair value gains and losses to profit or loss. This election may be made on an instrument-by-instrument basis.
Only financial
assets that are classified as measured at amortised cost are tested for impairment. Dividends are to be presented in profit or loss, as long
as they represent a return on investment.
The Group has not elected to designate any debt instruments meeting the amortised cost criteria as at fair value through profit or loss (FVTPL).
Investments in equity instruments are classified and measured as at FVTPL except if the equity investment is not held for trading and is
designated by the Group as at fair value through other comprehensive income (FVTOCI). If the equity investment is designated as at FVTOCI,
all gains and losses, except for dividend income recognised in accordance with IAS 18 Revenue, are recognised in other comprehensive
income and are not subsequently reclassified to profit or loss.



My 2 cents.
Time is money, so money is time. Money saved is time gained in reverse! Money stores your life’s energy. You expend your energy, get paid money, and store that money for a future purchase made in a currency.
VituVingiSana
#9 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2016 7:33:27 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
@Gatheuzi - So Jubilee EARLY adopted IFRS 9 which is I would consider a GOOD thing since they aren't waiting for the last minute. And they have been CONSISTENT in the application of the IFRS 9 and followed through.

@Guru - Again, I ask, what are the tricks that Jubilee used. Not general statements but specifics. Numbers, line items, etc will help me understand these better. When can I expect a response? Thanks!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
muganda
#10 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:04:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
The tougher state of affairs at:

Jubilee Insurance Kenya for 2015

(not the group holding company)
guru267
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:24:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Gatheuzi - So Jubilee EARLY adopted IFRS 9 which is I would consider a GOOD thing since they aren't waiting for the last minute. And they have been CONSISTENT in the application of the IFRS 9 and followed through.

@Guru - Again, I ask, what are the tricks that Jubilee used. Not general statements but specifics. Numbers, line items, etc will help me understand these better. When can I expect a response? Thanks!


The trick is in perception... If I pass NSE gains/losses through the P&L, the results I announce are always unstable.. If I pass them through OCI my results will always be stable... (The media and common man tend to ignore OCI)

Where assets are measured at fair value, gains and losses are either recognised entirely in profit or loss (fair value through profit or loss, FVTPL), or recognised in other comprehensive income (fair value through other comprehensive income, FVTOCI)
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
muganda
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:36:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Gatheuzi - So Jubilee EARLY adopted IFRS 9 which is I would consider a GOOD thing since they aren't waiting for the last minute. And they have been CONSISTENT in the application of the IFRS 9 and followed through.

@Guru - Again, I ask, what are the tricks that Jubilee used. Not general statements but specifics. Numbers, line items, etc will help me understand these better. When can I expect a response? Thanks!


The trick is in perception... If I pass NSE gains/losses through the P&L, the results I announce are always unstable.. If I pass them through OCI my results will always be stable... (The media and common man tend to ignore OCI)

Where assets are measured at fair value, gains and losses are either recognised entirely in profit or loss (fair value through profit or loss, FVTPL), or recognised in other comprehensive income (fair value through other comprehensive income, FVTOCI)

In fairness though, the share of positions held regarded as tradeable (and thus in the P&L) would be relatively small. Jubilee stays for aeons on the top 10 lists of the companies it has an interest.

Further for P&L, other income which includes investment income
Variance
Loss FY 2015 -1.2bn
Gain FY 2014 +1.2bn
Gain FY 2013 +0.5bn
Gain FY 2012 +1.7bn
Loss FY 2011 -0.5bn
VituVingiSana
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:33:24 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Gatheuzi - So Jubilee EARLY adopted IFRS 9 which is I would consider a GOOD thing since they aren't waiting for the last minute. And they have been CONSISTENT in the application of the IFRS 9 and followed through.

@Guru - Again, I ask, what are the tricks that Jubilee used. Not general statements but specifics. Numbers, line items, etc will help me understand these better. When can I expect a response? Thanks!


The trick is in perception... If I pass NSE gains/losses through the P&L, the results I announce are always unstable.. If I pass them through OCI my results will always be stable... (The media and common man tend to ignore OCI)

Where assets are measured at fair value, gains and losses are either recognised entirely in profit or loss (fair value through profit or loss, FVTPL), or recognised in other comprehensive income (fair value through other comprehensive income, FVTOCI)

So if Jubilees consistently follows one method then what's the trick in perception?
As far as the media & common man not looking at OCI, who is that a trick "in perception" by Jubilee?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Gordon Gekko
#14 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 5:16:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Trick, perception, FVTPL, FVTOCI - all doesn't matter after the humongous dividend hit my account yesterday.
alotoftalk
#15 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 6:05:14 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2015
Posts: 138
Location: Harare
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
@Gatheuzi - So Jubilee EARLY adopted IFRS 9 which is I would consider a GOOD thing since they aren't waiting for the last minute. And they have been CONSISTENT in the application of the IFRS 9 and followed through.

@Guru - Again, I ask, what are the tricks that Jubilee used. Not general statements but specifics. Numbers, line items, etc will help me understand these better. When can I expect a response? Thanks!


The trick is in perception... If I pass NSE gains/losses through the P&L, the results I announce are always unstable.. If I pass them through OCI my results will always be stable... (The media and common man tend to ignore OCI)

Where assets are measured at fair value, gains and losses are either recognised entirely in profit or loss (fair value through profit or loss, FVTPL), or recognised in other comprehensive income (fair value through other comprehensive income, FVTOCI)


Jubilee has adopted the letter and spirit of IFRS 9. The standard addresses the issue of reporting gains or losses related to held to maturity assets. So rather than being a perception issue it actually improves quality of earnings. If a company has investments in treasury bonds, for example, for purposes of paying life insurance claims (Jubilee's business model), they will always receive the principal and interest. Therefore adjusting the year-on-year MTM through OCI makes more sense.
Investment philosophy development in progress...
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