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Cytonn Investments
Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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@ Horton
Most Ponzi schemes are not intentionally build to be Ponzi schemes, it turn Ponzi when the owners start promising returns they cannot sustain, because they want to hype their business, they start paying out returns that were not profitably achieved but rather out of investor's capital/deposits. That is how a well intended venture turn into a ponzi scheme
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Horton wrote:@rollout did u jus " roll out a joint" before u said that? ( see what i did there?!?!  ) LOL my credentials are very well know by a lot of wazuans....ask sparkly I aint no Dande Hi@Alma thanks for asking a valid question, 1)I have shares i bought in the PPM, bought at 10, currently 60- i thought I mentioned that several times before?.(bought as a group) 2)I have invested in their CMS- rate 18%, interest paid monthly, after tax, roughly 16.5% its really quite straight forward, I needed some cash somewhere in Jan and I just filled out a withdrawal slip and money was wired to my account the day after without deductions no questions asked. 3) i have bought the alma, off plan, it started off at 4.675m, currently at 5.8m, we have a payment plan (bought as a group) @impunity, thats just ridiculous, I'm not going to post my details here. @tom boy, why the excitement? please tell me what you find "suspicious" don't give me the duck theory, something tangible would be nice from you and your friend paul for a change.BTW all these years i have seen bad banks, ponds come and go.... i see those a mile away ;) A lion can be seen and the dangers are quite apparent; carnivorous cat, attacks when threatened, however in this case I see no claws or canines, just an investment opportunity. I will take my chances here, odds look pretty good in my favour. Thanks for your concern but it is clearly without validity. @murchr, Bernie Madoff, was a man respected by all in the industry, was a long time player, giving very AVERAGE returns...not spectacular returns. He did no marketing (unlike Cytonn), for those of you who don't like reading there is a brief documentary somewhere on how he did business. Simply put His sons Mark & Andrew and his brother, Peter who ran the fronting company, did not even have a clue of the delivery room fraud!! Great read it was ,"Wizard of Lies" is the name of the book for all who care for a read. In summation, Investing is always a risk, and its how u mitigate your risks by doing your own homework. I acquit confident that my homework has been done properly. Having been in this market for 16years now, I think I have a pretty good idea that this is a home run FOR ME. We are always learning. Remember, all these are my views and I bare responsibility for no one.(thats me stating the obvious) Madoff had his sons and other directors in his company, it wasnt just Madoff and sons. Some of these directors are rotting in jail. Madoff did not advertise but his name was enough...he was accomplished. He did not start off as a ponzi....just that, the returns were no longer sustainable and the cash coming in was thinning. He blamed his investors for wanting more..and everyone else just like what this Dande fellow is doing. You know what Buffet says..."you get to know who's swimming naked when the tide goes down"... Bernie Madoff wrote:"When you deal with people’s money, as I did for all my life, you realize how strange they are; it’s all like, ‘What have you done for me lately?’ If you made money for me, I was smart... and if you lose money, then it’s all your fault. So you become somewhat callous about people lying." On stupid investors: He says the ton of people who begged him to take their money, didn't seem to care about the "red flags" and "caveats" that he waved in their faces. He explains, Bernie Madoff wrote: “They were all told by me, ‘Don’t invest any more money than you could afford to lose. This is the stock market. There’s always stuff that can happen. Brokerage firms can fail. I could go crazy and do something stupid. If you want a [safe thing], put your money in government bonds. So everybody understood this." On greedy investors: Bernie Madoff wrote:“Everyone was greedy. I just went along.".........................
"Their friends had told them, ‘How can you be making 15 or 18 percent when everyone is making less money? Believe me, if you don’t think they had doubts, they had doubts … I would say, certainly, by the mid-to-late nineties." "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Just so that we dont loose track on this one I will list down the MDs comments Edwin Dande wrote:Come on mclaren, why are you such a hater? who have we conned? The last I checked, our investors are very happy. if you want to do well just get down to work and deliver results and you will grow. and what is wrong with CPA and CFAs marketing? We have a qualified and capable team, and we are putting that to work, what is the issue? And yes, we are the leading brand in research and reports, is there any specific issue you have with the content and analysis in the reports? And the projects are ongoing ...go across from bomas of kenya there is a signature development going on. Go to ruaka, we have the largest development in Kiambu County, in Ololua we break ground next month. In June we launch are whole new city in Athi. If you have any genuine matters you want to understand, you are welcome for a cup of tea at our State House Avenue offices. Edwin Dande wrote:Paul, just like mclaren, stop hating. You can come and verify our qualifications. Let me know when you can come to our offices and we will have our qualifications ready for your review. Our research is headed by the most qualified person in matters finance in this country - Elizabeth. The last I checked, she was one among the very few in this entire country with a CPA, CFA and MBA, and that one per is at Cytonn. What issue do you have? And what do you mean nothing to show? What do you want we show you? Just come for a cup of tea Paul, please. ON ACHIEVEMENTS Edwin Dande wrote:Tuege, we have achieved a lot. 1) Today we employ 120 kenyans across three offices - state house avenue, The Chancery and Washington DC. 2) We have secured Taaleri of Finland as our leading investor. 3) We have over 1,300 acres on projects under development - you can check our website for the list. 4) We have raised over Kshs. 5 billion. Honestly, you should be partnering with us for growth not bashing us for doing nothing. Come we give you a more comprehensive list. You what have you achieved? Edwin Dande wrote:We are a blessed and generous firm Paul, so we welcome people for coffee and team anytime. We don't need to go to Bonds or Stanley, we even have a bar in the office, open every Friday at 4 pm. We chat and share ideas and plan the next execution over coffee and drinks. Don't underestimate the press, they are very sharp and tired of old ideas. Cytonn is a fresh breathe of air. Again, stop hating. All the best to you Cynton and investors. May we meet in the future. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:Just so that we dont loose track on this one I will list down the MDs comments Edwin Dande wrote:Come on mclaren, why are you such a hater? who have we conned? The last I checked, our investors are very happy. if you want to do well just get down to work and deliver results and you will grow. and what is wrong with CPA and CFAs marketing? We have a qualified and capable team, and we are putting that to work, what is the issue? And yes, we are the leading brand in research and reports, is there any specific issue you have with the content and analysis in the reports? And the projects are ongoing ...go across from bomas of kenya there is a signature development going on. Go to ruaka, we have the largest development in Kiambu County, in Ololua we break ground next month. In June we launch are whole new city in Athi. If you have any genuine matters you want to understand, you are welcome for a cup of tea at our State House Avenue offices. Edwin Dande wrote:Paul, just like mclaren, stop hating. You can come and verify our qualifications. Let me know when you can come to our offices and we will have our qualifications ready for your review. Our research is headed by the most qualified person in matters finance in this country - Elizabeth. The last I checked, she was one among the very few in this entire country with a CPA, CFA and MBA, and that one per is at Cytonn. What issue do you have? And what do you mean nothing to show? What do you want we show you? Just come for a cup of tea Paul, please. ON ACHIEVEMENTS Edwin Dande wrote:Tuege, we have achieved a lot. 1) Today we employ 120 kenyans across three offices - state house avenue, The Chancery and Washington DC. 2) We have secured Taaleri of Finland as our leading investor. 3) We have over 1,300 acres on projects under development - you can check our website for the list. 4) We have raised over Kshs. 5 billion. Honestly, you should be partnering with us for growth not bashing us for doing nothing. Come we give you a more comprehensive list. You what have you achieved? Edwin Dande wrote:We are a blessed and generous firm Paul, so we welcome people for coffee and team anytime. We don't need to go to Bonds or Stanley, we even have a bar in the office, open every Friday at 4 pm. We chat and share ideas and plan the next execution over coffee and drinks. Don't underestimate the press, they are very sharp and tired of old ideas. Cytonn is a fresh breathe of air. Again, stop hating. All the best to you Cynton and investors. May we meet in the future. I invest with them and am very happy...I will exit at the right time. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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I spent 20 min on Cynton website and It made me uncomfortable. the 5 billion they've raised goes into 3 project.
*10 crazy looking mansions investment total, Ksh 625M or kshs 62.5m each
** Crazy/Hollywood kind mansions total, kshs 3.05B
*** Overpriced flats( 1 bedroom ~kshs 5M) total price kshs 1.6b
Make your judgement
Those who want to exit, what are you exiting from? the houses are not done, there is currently no underlying asset tied to your investment, the only way to exit is if they pay you off other people's capital.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2010 Posts: 495 Location: Nairobi
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The biggest redflag I had earlier posted on Cytonn was this: Quote:Cytonn Investments has repaid a KES 220 million or approximately $2.1 million structured real estate loan provided by Taaleritehdas Private Equity, an arm of a Finnish Wealth Management company. The note had been structured at the market rate cost of funds of 18% plus participation in the capital appreciation achieved during the period of the note, delivering the Helsinki-headquartered investor an annualized return of 54%. Annualized return of 54%? Phew! Sources: http://africacapitaldige...onn-repays-2-1mln-note/
http://www.capitalfm.co....ote-with-taaleritehdas/
http://www.businessdaily...2/-/fxi08a/-/index.html
For whatever it's worth, here are a few picture from Amara Ridge (grabbed from Skyscrapercity):       Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/7/2014 Posts: 40
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What ever happened to the Britam Court case? I was told it's still ongoing?
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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Ash Ock wrote:The biggest redflag I had earlier posted on Cytonn was this: Quote:Cytonn Investments has repaid a KES 220 million or approximately $2.1 million structured real estate loan provided by Taaleritehdas Private Equity, an arm of a Finnish Wealth Management company. The note had been structured at the market rate cost of funds of 18% plus participation in the capital appreciation achieved during the period of the note, delivering the Helsinki-headquartered investor an annualized return of 54%. Annualized return of 54%? Phew! Sources: http://africacapitaldige...onn-repays-2-1mln-note/
http://www.capitalfm.co....ote-with-taaleritehdas/
http://www.businessdaily...2/-/fxi08a/-/index.html
For whatever it's worth, here are a few picture from Amara Ridge (grabbed from Skyscrapercity): How did the capital appreciate?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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KenyanEconomist wrote:What ever happened to the Britam Court case? I was told it's still ongoing? It is ongoing. Britam and Acorn settled. Acorn handed over the irregularly transferred land AND money totalling over 3.9 billion to Britam... Handed BACK the money and land. Meaning there was something TO HAND BACK! The guys at Cytonn had given Acorn what was not for them and Britam settled with Acorn because they gave it back. Britam did not settle with Cytonn. They are still pursuing criminal charged against Cytonn and now after settling with Acorn and gaining their land and money back - they have a even more valid claim. Acorn essentially proved that the Cytonn guys stole from Britam when they gave the money and land back.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rollout wrote:I spent 20 min on Cynton website and It made me uncomfortable. the 5 billion they've raised goes into 3 project.
*10 crazy looking mansions investment total, Ksh 625M or kshs 62.5m each
** Crazy/Hollywood kind mansions total, kshs 3.05B
*** Overpriced flats( 1 bedroom ~kshs 5M) total price kshs 1.6b
Make your judgement
Those who want to exit, what are you exiting from? the houses are not done, there is currently no underlying asset tied to your investment, the only way to exit is if they pay you off other people's capital.
@Drunkard Where the hell have you been? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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