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tycho
#51 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 9:23:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The 'supernatural', to put it mildly, has a doubtful existence. Or rather, it's neither true or reasonable to speak of it.
limanika
#52 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 10:18:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.
tycho
#53 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 7:35:25 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.


It's interesting to note how your own 'heart'- whatever it means, could be deceiving you.
masukuma
#54 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 8:19:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.


It's interesting to note how your own 'heart'- whatever it means, could be deceiving you.

In which part of the heart? Which ventricle?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
limanika
#55 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 9:00:14 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.


It's interesting to note how your own 'heart'- whatever it means, could be deceiving you.
of all creation, human heart is full of deceit...is the actual phrase I was looking for. Look everywhere. That's why a restoration is necessary.
tycho
#56 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:05:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
The 'supernatural', to put it mildly, has a doubtful existence. Or rather, it's neither true or reasonable to speak of it.


Interestingly, this is the very problem that Kant was contending with in the 'critique of pure reason' and as I try to understand his thought I begin to see how we can speak of the 'Supernatural' intelligibly. But it puts our common usage and understanding into doubt...
tycho
#57 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:08:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.


It's interesting to note how your own 'heart'- whatever it means, could be deceiving you.
of all creation, human heart is full of deceit...is the actual phrase I was looking for. Look everywhere. That's why a restoration is necessary.


Our difference of opinion is getting clearer and I'm learning to appreciate your view. It's hard work but I love it.
Wakanyugi
#58 Posted : Monday, April 11, 2016 12:32:28 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.


I have found the first statement to be true in my experience. Every important question I had, I have found an answer if I genuinely sought for one. Sometimes the answers come in very strange ways.

As for the heart being deceptive, my experience has been just the opposite. The things I have felt through 'the heart' have turned out to be more true than those I found through reason or sometimes even observation.

Looking back on the big mistakes of my life I always find this statement hanging like permanent accusation 'I knew this was a bad idea.' I most often get into trouble when I ignore my heart in favor of my head.




"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#59 Posted : Monday, April 11, 2016 12:48:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.



I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?


Tycho: allow me to give my take on these questions, base on the earlier point about observer dependent reality:

If we accept that everyone interprets reality in their own unique way, then it would follow that any interaction between us is an effort to seek areas of observation overlap, a consensus estimate of more than one observation, reducing them to something we can agree on. Without this, communication, or even existence in a common space/time frame would be impossible. It is likely that if there was nothing we could agree on, you and I would be practically invisible to each other.

But, ultimately your truth remains yours and mine remains mine, even after the overlap. It is therefore possible for us to disagree and still be both correct. In fact it is likely that this is what happens most of the time.

As for why all this is important, I can only answer this with the same question posed about mountains: why do people climb mountains? Ans. because they are there.

Owning a body, a brain, the senses, intuition...the magnificent tools we have, and not using them to the ultimate is like buying a Ferrari and then driving it at 5Km per hour. Nothing wrong with it, but that is not what Ferrari's are meant for.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
limanika
#60 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2016 12:25:18 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.

The beauty is that you'll find the truth by yourself when you search truthfully and genuinely - through interaction with environment as well as other beings. And then everyone is given the gift of free will, to choose without coercion. Man is really a masterpiece, a very enviable creature in all of creation. But his heart is very deceptive.


It's interesting to note how your own 'heart'- whatever it means, could be deceiving you.
of all creation, human heart is full of deceit...is the actual phrase I was looking for. Look everywhere. That's why a restoration is necessary.


Our difference of opinion is getting clearer and I'm learning to appreciate your view. It's hard work but I love it.

Good. positive sign, hopefully we can also decode 'tycho'
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