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Pale blue dot
Wakanyugi
#41 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:17:11 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Impunity wrote:
masukuma wrote:
[quote=limanika][quote=masukuma]


Is there an end of space?
That this far is the furthest the space is extended.
And what is that empty area beyond the space?
I mean does space exist?

What is space?


Space is a description of the pattern formed by two or more objects in relation to each other.

Time is a measure of the process by which these objects come to form this pattern and how this pattern changes.

Where no objects exist (or even only one) there can be no space and no time.

Further, for both space and time to exist, there must be an entity that ‘reads’ these patterns and the way they change and interprets them in a ‘meaningful’ way. We call this entity, ‘the observer’ or consciousness.

This interpretation of pattern and change, however, is observer dependent. Your reality is different from mine, yet similar enough as to allow our mutual co-existence.

Space and time are therefore, illusions, creations of the observer. They are important conventions, though, because it is on them that we ‘hang’ matter/energy (the objects) and thus create the Universe (pattern) we see. Without space and time, our current reality, as we interpret it, would be largely meaningless.

But they are illusions, nevertheless.

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
limanika
#42 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 3:22:53 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.
Wakanyugi
#43 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 3:47:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


It is said that one of the greatest geniuses of Einstein was the intuitive realization that space and time are one and the same thing while matter and energy are also one and the same thing.

I don't think this postulate has come close to being disproven, or ever will. What science has hesitated to do is make the next intuitive leap, that the four conventions are one and the same.

M-theory might yet make that case.

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#44 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 4:00:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?
masukuma
#45 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 4:33:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

@tycho - there is the supernatural. however it exists in our collective consciousness. I remember some certain deep statement you made on prayer sometime back. (I cannot be able to sift through wazua to find and quote it as-is so you will need to bear with my parapharsing of the same). You said,
Quote:
[in future] What will we need to pray for?
It struck a nerve. People used to pray for everything and thus the realm of the supernatural was big. You would pray that a person who sneezes does not have his heart stopped by the sneezing. people would pray for rain basically anywhere there was no information or uncertainty we invoked the divine. this realm of things to pray for is slowly growing smaller.... there is still much to be prayed about but rarely as much as we used to pray for before. Mtoto akipata fever.... you execute a certain repeatable set of steps and he/she gets well.... he/she gets ill again - rinse and repeat! Tough prayer is now restricted to things science cannot treat well - sio fever!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
limanika
#46 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 4:55:57 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.
tycho
#47 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 6:26:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
limanika wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

Look within. What does your conscience tell you about these things.


If it were the question of introspection then you can be assured that I'm doing it. My questions however are directed at the results of your own introspection.
tycho
#48 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 7:23:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
limanika wrote:
There's space time and then there's matter, that's the natural. Then there's the supernatural. That's all.


I'm thinking about all these ideas and please allow me to ask:

1. How do you know this statement is true?
2. Why is it important for you to be having belief in these assertions?

@tycho - there is the supernatural. however it exists in our collective consciousness. I remember some certain deep statement you made on prayer sometime back. (I cannot be able to sift through wazua to find and quote it as-is so you will need to bear with my parapharsing of the same). You said,
Quote:
[in future] What will we need to pray for?
It struck a nerve. People used to pray for everything and thus the realm of the supernatural was big. You would pray that a person who sneezes does not have his heart stopped by the sneezing. people would pray for rain basically anywhere there was no information or uncertainty we invoked the divine. this realm of things to pray for is slowly growing smaller.... there is still much to be prayed about but rarely as much as we used to pray for before. Mtoto akipata fever.... you execute a certain repeatable set of steps and he/she gets well.... he/she gets ill again - rinse and repeat! Tough prayer is now restricted to things science cannot treat well - sio fever!


Maybe there's nothing like 'collective consciousness'. But if indeed the supernatural exists in such a place, where does the natural exist?
harrydre
#49 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 7:45:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
limanika wrote:
masukuma wrote:
limanika wrote:
On pale blue dot, another way to look at the scenario is for instance consider a plane up high in the sky...it appears 1 feet long...in reality it is tens of metres long. The illusion of 1 feet is the result of our own limitations..e.g. we rely on light from the object to the eye.... and interpretation of size is affected by the distance...yet in reality, the plane is same size and doesn't lose any of its properties. So the pale blue dot is an illusion, the result of voyager's own limitations rather than the converse.

yes... when compared to the observer! but not in the scale of things. While the plane is larger than the observer juxtaposing it against the sky we realise that what we consider really large is actually small in the grand scale of things. if you really thought about it.

Something really interesting is that the "pale blue dot" has a surface that is 70% water and of the 30% left the global urban land was close to 3 %, the global built-up area was about 0.65 %, and the global impervious surface area was merely 0.45 %, of the word’s total land area (excluding Antarctica and Greenland) in 2010.
TAFAKARI HAYO!!

It is said voyager is still within solar system. Now solar system is under influence of the sun , the only star in the system. There are billons of other stars in the milky way galaxy. There are billions of galaxies in the universe, each with billions upon billions of stars...that's as far as classification goes. So your 'pale blue' dot ought not to even be visible in the map when you consider the 'greater scheme of things'


mind boggling indeed. The sad part is if we never get to know about what we know that we don't know. Maybe we will in the next life (if it exists). Will the fleas on planet doGG ever know about planet earth ever?
i.am.back!!!!
limanika
#50 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2016 9:08:21 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
harrydre wrote:
limanika wrote:
masukuma wrote:
limanika wrote:
On pale blue dot, another way to look at the scenario is for instance consider a plane up high in the sky...it appears 1 feet long...in reality it is tens of metres long. The illusion of 1 feet is the result of our own limitations..e.g. we rely on light from the object to the eye.... and interpretation of size is affected by the distance...yet in reality, the plane is same size and doesn't lose any of its properties. So the pale blue dot is an illusion, the result of voyager's own limitations rather than the converse.

yes... when compared to the observer! but not in the scale of things. While the plane is larger than the observer juxtaposing it against the sky we realise that what we consider really large is actually small in the grand scale of things. if you really thought about it.

Something really interesting is that the "pale blue dot" has a surface that is 70% water and of the 30% left the global urban land was close to 3 %, the global built-up area was about 0.65 %, and the global impervious surface area was merely 0.45 %, of the word’s total land area (excluding Antarctica and Greenland) in 2010.
TAFAKARI HAYO!!

It is said voyager is still within solar system. Now solar system is under influence of the sun , the only star in the system. There are billons of other stars in the milky way galaxy. There are billions of galaxies in the universe, each with billions upon billions of stars...that's as far as classification goes. So your 'pale blue' dot ought not to even be visible in the map when you consider the 'greater scheme of things'


mind boggling indeed. The sad part is if we never get to know about what we know that we don't know. Maybe we will in the next life (if it exists). Will the fleas on planet doGG ever know about planet earth ever?

We need not be sad. Man has his place in the creation, and a very enviable one. He's the only creature that encompasses the natural and supernatural. That man doesn't know everything is by design. If you had your own creation, perhaps you would reveal everything to everyone. It's not the case, and am sure for the good.
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