Rev. Njue came up with a very good point which was enlightening to me as i didnt know it happens.

he said, the clergy and priests who serve the army are paid by the government. they are paid by the tax payer's money. why would muslims be contributing to payment of clergy and priests 'salaries' if we bring the argument of the tax payer's money being used to fund kadhi courts?

On another point, we are so passionate about the money that goes to kadhi courts forgetting that if we have a good constitution where we have independent institutions then we can eliminate corruption and impunity and we can pay kadhi courts 100 times over with all the money we have been loosing to these goons..... seriously, whatever we pay for kadhi courts is so negligible we need to deal with the emergencies like corruption first... then, if it is still too thorny an issue, we can even ask for a referendum (which we shall afford to pay for by the way if we curb corruption) and vote the kadhi courts out.....

Even in your homes, you do not try putting out fire when the power and the gas cylinders are on. First things first... i would think.

...I found Njoya so so sensible. The same Clergy who are against the katiba is the same group of thugs who put their tails between their legs when Njoya was being molested for demanding a new constitution. This group supported a constitution that was worse than what is in the draft. When did the see the light?. Opportunists!!!

@Soko Tele:
...What is wrong in Njoya stating the truth. Majority of christians do like Muslims and vice versa. That was not new information. That is what Chrisitians all over the world were mmade to believe by George Bush.

I am here to stay until I vote for my right to be a dual citizen and my children to be considered Kenyans.

Seeing Rev Njoya and that other pastor ( can't remember his name) was very sad indeed. One man paid with his life, the other one gets paid by poor folk to pray for them.

All of a sudden these lunatics that run a business in the name of a church have the audacity to take us back where people had died to come from.

I am sorry guys, not this time.

There is a hidden agenda here and to me its very clear.

1. A group of MPs led by people who may be going to the Hague saying no ati because of Land issues. Land that they know they illegally acquired in the first place.

2. A group of fake modern day "prophets" that only show up to put a spanner in the wheel each and every time.
In bad times eg during maize scandals, school fees, IDP's, Tritons etc these psychos are mum.

I agree, there are legitimate concerns in the draft. Heck there are concerns in each and every constitution in this world.

In my opinion, this is the best chance we have to ensure equality in this my nation.

I will not let a bunch of psedo prophets take control of the destiny of this country.

Church leaders: Go to hell!!!

Rev Njoya on NTV came out as populist, petty and personal, trying to impress with sound bites. At the end of the show he really did not convince me that the church leaders have no point.

Dr. Karanja on KTN on the other hand had enlightening comments on the issue of abortion- that the current law allows it when the LIFE of the mother is in danger while the draft constitution allows it when the HEALTH of the mother is in danger and that the word 'health' as defined by WHO is quite wide to include social, psychological health etc,; that the draft leaves decision to a health professional, a term broad enough to include a nurse; that to him, the issue of abortion is also a health issue leave alone being a religious one especially because any doctor who has taken the hippocratic oath would not professionally procure an abortion. Now that is substance in a debate.

I am a born again Christian...I love Jesus Christ as my Personal savior...and wish all Wazuans are ....

Kadhis court is for the muslims ....they do not in anyway affect Christians....kwanini wakristo wanawashwa na pili iliyoko kwa shamba ya majirani?...Let the muslims be what they want to be ...if anything preach for them to accept that Jesus christ is the way.. the truth and the life ... no one shall see the father except through Him...and Kadhis courts will be redundant...if all muslims convert to Christianity.

I think these 'leaders are misleading Christians'
They are being fundamentalists.....

Church leaders ...you have abandoned your flock please rethink your stance..

Kenyans have a choice to make

1.to either follow some prophets and stay as they are broke, penniless and always shouting haki yetu or

2. to have the destiny of their lives in their hands

This constitution journey did not start 20 years ago because women were aborting or because muslims had a Kadhis court.

It started because if your name was not Kenyatta, or Moi, your children had no chance in hell to leave peacefully and earn from their sweat. People died in this country being thrown out of Nyayo house by some old man who says the draft is bad.

Nothing has changed in this country going by the posts on this forum and my beloved sk.

Police are still broke and take hongo. Land is still being grabbed even by the mayor. Women are still being raped by their husbands in the name of tradition. I will pray for you if you get into the court system in Kenya. Kenyans are still complaining 24 hours a day about how bad their lives are.

All this under the current constitution.

This draft is 205 pages long. Hundreds of clauses in it. The pseudo christians have picked on 2 minor clauses that the proposed supreme court as well as the parliament can deal with to decide that I stay with this maaaad constitution.

If Kenya's problem is abortion then by all means, vote against it. If muslims going to their own family court is evil, then vote against it. But spare us your holier than though attitudes and your threats. If we could deal with Moi's regime, you are upus.

Look at the people shouting the most. Some priest who may or may not abused kids. A reverend who supported a maize thief. A Dr, hon, pastor who may have rigged an election. Are these the people who have your best interests in hand?

It's the Money Stupid

Let us be honest here. It is about money. The churches are against the land commision. At least Ruto is honest about it.

The "church" has for ages been acquiring land illegally in Kenya. Ask yourself where all these tent churches get the money to buy prime land from.....

You are being bamboozled, hoodwinked, run astray, run amock, lied to by these church leaders. (sorry malcom)

In the meantime, I will have my viceroy in celebration as I read my Bible and interpret the give unto Ceasar clause the way a muslim would.

Guys
The minute you start condemning the men of God, is the minute your end starts.
I am listening to Kenyans and I wonder what happened to the God fearing culture where we always respect the men of God
Be very careful
I am voting No, until the issues raised are addressed.
For me and my children

Fundaah, that's a good start, the solution being to review our VALUES and express them in the constitution.

[quote=Njunge]@Nanfor,
thereafter,marshal a million signatures to petition an amendment quote]

I will be more than willing to sign for the ammendment especially on abortion ....as I am pro-life

I have seen and read all this arguments before.
Can I raise a small point. When Church leaders say they will lead there followers to say no if the 2 conditions are not met are they speaking as church leaders or as politicians. I am afraid it can not be both.
If they are speaking as church leaders, whose principles are they following because I am sure the Carpenter from Nazareth was a humble and always gave such useful advice such as turn your cheek and give on to caesar.
There is a band that young people love with the initials WWJD. Which stands for what would jesus do? What whould he tell his flock?? I wonder!

If the church leaders are speaking as politicians please let them say so and then I can put on my look-through bullshit shades and wear my listening to idiots headphones.

@waithaka .... I see you have turned your wrath to the christians now!!