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Church leaders: Go to hell!!!
muganda
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:59:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,907
Sasa sasaaa, my understanding of referendum issues:

1. Kadhi's courts: you vote YES you have them, you vote NO you still have them

2. Abortion:
--current constitution is silent on abortion or when life begins;
penal code says abortion illegal except in opinion of two medical doctors who agreed that abortion is necessary for the life of the mother
(1 exception)

--proposed constitution says life begins at conception plus abortion is illegal except where in the 'opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.
(3 exceptions)



On another note, what should the new constitution say about a woman who is raped - does she have a right to weigh her conscience to determine whether she will have a child or not?

I think she should; just the same as a man has the right to defend his family when armed robbers come calling - he may choose to retaliate violently or perhaps kill...

Or maybe we just adopt theoretical arguments until it's your sister, or daughter, or until the machete is swung in your house in the still of the night!

Wendz
#22 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 6:14:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Rev. Njue came up with a very good point which was enlightening to me as i didnt know it happens.

he said, the clergy and priests who serve the army are paid by the government. they are paid by the tax payer's money. why would muslims be contributing to payment of clergy and priests 'salaries' if we bring the argument of the tax payer's money being used to fund kadhi courts?

On another point, we are so passionate about the money that goes to kadhi courts forgetting that if we have a good constitution where we have independent institutions then we can eliminate corruption and impunity and we can pay kadhi courts 100 times over with all the money we have been loosing to these goons..... seriously, whatever we pay for kadhi courts is so negligible we need to deal with the emergencies like corruption first... then, if it is still too thorny an issue, we can even ask for a referendum (which we shall afford to pay for by the way if we curb corruption) and vote the kadhi courts out.....

Even in your homes, you do not try putting out fire when the power and the gas cylinders are on. First things first... i would think.
Soko tele
#23 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 6:21:03 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/19/2008
Posts: 60
@Wendz..........What Rev Njoya did not tell you is that the priests in the military work for the gov and thats why they are paid by them and the same happens to the Imams who are in the military as well. So his arguement did not hold water.

Did you also notice that he said Christians hate muslims..........i found that reckless

Pst Masinde said the christian do not have an issue with Kadhis courts, their issue is them being put in the constitution but they are ok with them if put under an Act of parliament
Magigi
#24 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 6:44:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...I found Njoya so so sensible. The same Clergy who are against the katiba is the same group of thugs who put their tails between their legs when Njoya was being molested for demanding a new constitution. This group supported a constitution that was worse than what is in the draft. When did the see the light?. Opportunists!!!

@Soko Tele:
...What is wrong in Njoya stating the truth. Majority of christians do like Muslims and vice versa. That was not new information. That is what Chrisitians all over the world were mmade to believe by George Bush.
Much Know
#25 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 6:50:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,588
muganda wrote:
Sasa sasaaa, my understanding of referendum issues:

1. Kadhi's courts: you vote YES you have them, you vote NO you still have them



Wa_ithaka wrote:
I'm still waiting for these d***heads to tell me why they don't boycott the current katiba since it has the cathy courts in it.


So what is the purpose of constitutional review if it is not to correct the wrongs of a bad constitution? Let people air their views, you will be surprised the majority may not want this kadhis courts, after all it is the mkolonis who put this courts into the constitution as a divide and rule chip.

On the question of if we vote NO the Kadhis still remain, then let them see we are serious, let them impose the Kadhis courts on us we vote NO next time they will use their heads and not use Kadhis courts as political bargaining chips. For me this courts earn a big NO
Ras Kienyeji Man
nanfor1
#26 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 6:52:48 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
I am here to stay until I vote for my right to be a dual citizen and my children to be considered Kenyans.

Seeing Rev Njoya and that other pastor ( can't remember his name) was very sad indeed. One man paid with his life, the other one gets paid by poor folk to pray for them.

All of a sudden these lunatics that run a business in the name of a church have the audacity to take us back where people had died to come from.

I am sorry guys, not this time.

There is a hidden agenda here and to me its very clear.

1. A group of MPs led by people who may be going to the Hague saying no ati because of Land issues. Land that they know they illegally acquired in the first place.

2. A group of fake modern day "prophets" that only show up to put a spanner in the wheel each and every time.
In bad times eg during maize scandals, school fees, IDP's, Tritons etc these psychos are mum.

I agree, there are legitimate concerns in the draft. Heck there are concerns in each and every constitution in this world.

In my opinion, this is the best chance we have to ensure equality in this my nation.

I will not let a bunch of psedo prophets take control of the destiny of this country.

Church leaders: Go to hell!!!
Hata wakizima taa
Soko tele
#27 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 7:04:33 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/19/2008
Posts: 60
Magigi wrote:
...I found Njoya so so sensible. The same Clergy who are against the katiba is the same group of thugs who put their tails between their legs when Njoya was being molested for demanding a new constitution. This group supported a constitution that was worse than what is in the draft. When did the see the light?. Opportunists!!!

@Soko Tele:
...What is wrong in Njoya stating the truth. Majority of christians do like Muslims and vice versa. That was not new information. That is what Chrisitians all over the world were mmade to believe by George Bush.



I agree, majority of christian like muslims....
Brewer
#28 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 7:07:44 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
Rev Njoya on NTV came out as populist, petty and personal, trying to impress with sound bites. At the end of the show he really did not convince me that the church leaders have no point.

Dr. Karanja on KTN on the other hand had enlightening comments on the issue of abortion- that the current law allows it when the LIFE of the mother is in danger while the draft constitution allows it when the HEALTH of the mother is in danger and that the word 'health' as defined by WHO is quite wide to include social, psychological health etc,; that the draft leaves decision to a health professional, a term broad enough to include a nurse; that to him, the issue of abortion is also a health issue leave alone being a religious one especially because any doctor who has taken the hippocratic oath would not professionally procure an abortion. Now that is substance in a debate.
Magigi
#29 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 7:11:43 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
Soko tele; Sorry, Some corrections: Majority of christians DO NOT like Muslims. Yes it is a fact he was restating, not anything new...

Nanfor1
...where have you been...? Tell them ..." will not let a bunch of psedo prophets take control of the destiny of this country.

Church leaders: Go to hell!!!"
Fundaah
#30 Posted : Friday, April 09, 2010 7:16:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
I am a born again Christian...I love Jesus Christ as my Personal savior...and wish all Wazuans are ....

Kadhis court is for the muslims ....they do not in anyway affect Christians....kwanini wakristo wanawashwa na pili iliyoko kwa shamba ya majirani?...Let the muslims be what they want to be ...if anything preach for them to accept that Jesus christ is the way.. the truth and the life ... no one shall see the father except through Him...and Kadhis courts will be redundant...if all muslims convert to Christianity.

I think these 'leaders are misleading Christians'
They are being fundamentalists.....

Church leaders ...you have abandoned your flock please rethink your stance..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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