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Tay AI
tycho
#21 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:01:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.
¿
#22 Posted : Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:03:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


Quote:
A widely repeated observation is that this is like worrying about overpopulation on Mars.


Quote:
Anyone looking for something to worry about in the near future might want to consider the opposite of superintelligence: superstupidity.
masukuma
#23 Posted : Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:49:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#24 Posted : Sunday, March 27, 2016 6:30:14 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.
masukuma
#25 Posted : Monday, March 28, 2016 9:37:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.

it's not... give an example.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#26 Posted : Monday, March 28, 2016 10:21:35 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.

it's not... give an example.


A child will mimic parent's behavior without defining the behavior. For example, children of a parent with bipolar condition will tend to be bipolar through behavioral learning. And by the way learning doesn't require definition or consciousness.
¿
#27 Posted : Monday, March 28, 2016 10:33:29 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.

it's not... give an example.


A child will mimic parent's behavior without defining the behavior. For example, children of a parent with bipolar condition will tend to be bipolar through behavioral learning. And by the way learning doesn't require definition or consciousness.


tycho wrote:


Building human traits into robots and AI. That's what AI has always been about.


masukuma
#28 Posted : Monday, March 28, 2016 10:40:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.

it's not... give an example.


A child will mimic parent's behavior without defining the behavior. For example, children of a parent with bipolar condition will tend to be bipolar through behavioral learning. And by the way learning doesn't require definition or consciousness.

definition is about distillation to component forms - it can be conscious or unconscious . for example - smiling or raising your hand is all about muscle movement and the child observes and distills this and replicates it - they don't get it right 1st time but they train their faculties into mastering what they see. Grasping - motor skills. All complex behaviour that we mimicked our parents were small movements that we mastered and learnt how to stitch them into complex movements.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#29 Posted : Monday, March 28, 2016 12:37:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.

it's not... give an example.


A child will mimic parent's behavior without defining the behavior. For example, children of a parent with bipolar condition will tend to be bipolar through behavioral learning. And by the way learning doesn't require definition or consciousness.

definition is about distillation to component forms - it can be conscious or unconscious . for example - smiling or raising your hand is all about muscle movement and the child observes and distills this and replicates it - they don't get it right 1st time but they train their faculties into mastering what they see. Grasping - motor skills. All complex behaviour that we mimicked our parents were small movements that we mastered and learnt how to stitch them into complex movements.


Equivocation. But even in the case I've provided there's no proof that the child will distill the components of behavior as in your case even unconsciously. If behavioral components- notice the mechanistic metaphor- could be distilled even unconsciously, then maladaptive mimicry would be avoided without therapy.

tycho
#30 Posted : Monday, March 28, 2016 12:41:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
¿ wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think "intelligence" and "mimicry" are different. the larger question of whether "it" knows "its" doing these things is a largely unappreciated one. Does AlphaGo "appreciate" go? does Deep blue appreciate chess? what we have is advanced mimicry of intelligence - perhaps a better question to ask is "does a very very very good painting or model of a person become a person? anyway the whole strong AI discussion is moot since it's not a question of "if" but "when" and the concerns of "old scientists" will be taken into consideration.


What makes a person? What's consciousness?

I think we're beyond mimicry.

until we can define and measure that - we cannot create something that mimics it.


Not true. Mimicry is possible without definition.

it's not... give an example.


A child will mimic parent's behavior without defining the behavior. For example, children of a parent with bipolar condition will tend to be bipolar through behavioral learning. And by the way learning doesn't require definition or consciousness.


tycho wrote:


Building human traits into robots and AI. That's what AI has always been about.




It's a bit difficult to deal with this 'enthymeme'.
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