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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Tu quoque (pronounced "too kwoh-kway"), is a form of ad hominem fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that an argument is wrong if the source making the claim has itself spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with it. in school we referred to it as "appeal to hypocrisy" a common one is usually in this format Bob: "Smoking is a well-known risk factor for cancer." Alice: "But you yourself smoke!" or ... Bob: "Stealing is illegal" Alice: "But you stole a car last year!" the so called "you have no moral ground to say blah blah blah" arguement All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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masukuma wrote:Tu quoque (pronounced "too kwoh-kway"), is a form of ad hominem fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that an argument is wrong if the source making the claim has itself spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with it. in school we referred to it as "appeal to hypocrisy" a common one is usually in this format
Bob: "Smoking is a well-known risk factor for cancer."
Alice: "But you yourself smoke!"
or ...
Bob: "Stealing is illegal"
Alice: "But you stole a car last year!"
the so called "you have no moral ground to say blah blah blah" arguement Maskum, et al, You have not got it, yet. What I said escaped you but I can still help you seize it. Perhaps you latched on to my statement that I hold him in no higher regard than any other common mortal man - an opinion that might have upset y'all given the high regard you have of him. All this chatter about intellectual and literature giant or the truth of his quote is irrelevant and political which if I will ignore lest I descend to the filthy depths of abusive talk which I leave to the plumbers who know themselves. I asked you to give another, who, as far as you and I can tell lived up to his pontifications. You can accept lessons from him, a documented racist if you please and subtly feed the mindset all you want but not I. By the way, has any denoucement of his earlier opinions ever been made by either himself or his estate? You never know, someone just might put them up and ask ya'll to learn from it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Anti_Burglar wrote:masukuma wrote:Tu quoque (pronounced "too kwoh-kway"), is a form of ad hominem fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that an argument is wrong if the source making the claim has itself spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with it. in school we referred to it as "appeal to hypocrisy" a common one is usually in this format
Bob: "Smoking is a well-known risk factor for cancer."
Alice: "But you yourself smoke!"
or ...
Bob: "Stealing is illegal"
Alice: "But you stole a car last year!"
the so called "you have no moral ground to say blah blah blah" arguement Maskum, et al, You have not got it, yet. What I said escaped you but I can still help you seize it. Perhaps you latched on to my statement that I hold him in no higher regard than any other common mortal man - an opinion that might have upset y'all given the high regard you have of him. All this chatter about intellectual and literature giant or the truth of his quote is irrelevant and political which if I will ignore lest I descend to the filthy depths of abusive talk which I leave to the plumbers who know themselves. I asked you to give another, who, as far as you and I can tell lived up to his pontifications. You can accept lessons from him, a documented racist if you please and subtly feed the mindset all you want but not I. By the way, has any denoucement of his earlier opinions ever been made by either himself or his estate? You never know, someone just might put them up and ask ya'll to learn from it. You don't get it.... it really has nothing to do with him living up to his pontifications. The subject is his pontifications. Can Moi talk about corruption? Yes... will his arguments be more valid or less valid because he said them? If the same exact statement comes from the pope or Obama - does it become more "truer" or more "factual". it's not about Moi or the Pope... it's about the statement on corruption and whether the statement is factual or not. But I understand - appeal to hypocrisy is a very common logical argument snare. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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masukuma wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:masukuma wrote:Tu quoque (pronounced "too kwoh-kway"), is a form of ad hominem fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that an argument is wrong if the source making the claim has itself spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with it. in school we referred to it as "appeal to hypocrisy" a common one is usually in this format
Bob: "Smoking is a well-known risk factor for cancer."
Alice: "But you yourself smoke!"
or ...
Bob: "Stealing is illegal"
Alice: "But you stole a car last year!"
the so called "you have no moral ground to say blah blah blah" arguement Maskum, et al, You have not got it, yet. What I said escaped you but I can still help you seize it. Perhaps you latched on to my statement that I hold him in no higher regard than any other common mortal man - an opinion that might have upset y'all given the high regard you have of him. All this chatter about intellectual and literature giant or the truth of his quote is irrelevant and political which if I will ignore lest I descend to the filthy depths of abusive talk which I leave to the plumbers who know themselves. I asked you to give another, who, as far as you and I can tell lived up to his pontifications. You can accept lessons from him, a documented racist if you please and subtly feed the mindset all you want but not I. By the way, has any denoucement of his earlier opinions ever been made by either himself or his estate? You never know, someone just might put them up and ask ya'll to learn from it. You don't get it.... it really has nothing to do with him living up to his pontifications. The subject is his pontifications. Can Moi talk about corruption? Yes... will his arguments be more valid or less valid because he said them? If the same exact statement comes from the pope or Obama - does it become more "truer" or more "factual". it's not about Moi or the Pope... it's about the statement on corruption and whether the statement is factual or not. But I understand - appeal to hypocrisy is a very common logical argument snare. It has everything to do with living up to one's convictions and expecting others to do the same. That is why for example when Mr. Francis talks about austerity from the Vatican the whole world takes him seriously. Maybe it is that way on these circles and not other circles, I don't know. What do you know, perhaps Mr. Twain meant it for his fellow white supremacists who are now watching with bemusement as you, an African, appropriate his speech for yourself. How can you take lessons about fraternity, equality, and other good human qualities from one who by precept and example spits and tramples upon them? If you do take those lessons what then stops you from taking the other lessons about subjection and subjugation? In all this, I am fair and I concede that hindsight vision is always 20/20 that is why I also asked if any denoucement of Mr. Twains earlier held position is available from whoever can do so. Until then, I might as well take flying lessons from pigs.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Anti_Burglar wrote:masukuma wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:masukuma wrote:Tu quoque (pronounced "too kwoh-kway"), is a form of ad hominem fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that an argument is wrong if the source making the claim has itself spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with it. in school we referred to it as "appeal to hypocrisy" a common one is usually in this format
Bob: "Smoking is a well-known risk factor for cancer."
Alice: "But you yourself smoke!"
or ...
Bob: "Stealing is illegal"
Alice: "But you stole a car last year!"
the so called "you have no moral ground to say blah blah blah" arguement Maskum, et al, You have not got it, yet. What I said escaped you but I can still help you seize it. Perhaps you latched on to my statement that I hold him in no higher regard than any other common mortal man - an opinion that might have upset y'all given the high regard you have of him. All this chatter about intellectual and literature giant or the truth of his quote is irrelevant and political which if I will ignore lest I descend to the filthy depths of abusive talk which I leave to the plumbers who know themselves. I asked you to give another, who, as far as you and I can tell lived up to his pontifications. You can accept lessons from him, a documented racist if you please and subtly feed the mindset all you want but not I. By the way, has any denoucement of his earlier opinions ever been made by either himself or his estate? You never know, someone just might put them up and ask ya'll to learn from it. You don't get it.... it really has nothing to do with him living up to his pontifications. The subject is his pontifications. Can Moi talk about corruption? Yes... will his arguments be more valid or less valid because he said them? If the same exact statement comes from the pope or Obama - does it become more "truer" or more "factual". it's not about Moi or the Pope... it's about the statement on corruption and whether the statement is factual or not. But I understand - appeal to hypocrisy is a very common logical argument snare. It has everything to do with living up to one's convictions and expecting others to do the same. That is why for example when Mr. Francis talks about austerity from the Vatican the whole world takes him seriously. Maybe it is that way on these circles and not other circles, I don't know. What do you know, perhaps Mr. Twain meant it for his fellow white supremacists who are now watching with bemusement as you, an African, appropriate his speech for yourself. How can you take lessons about fraternity, equality, and other good human qualities from one who by precept and example spits and tramples upon them? If you do take those lessons what then stops you from taking the other lessons about subjection and subjugation? In all this, I am fair and I concede that hindsight vision is always 20/20 that is why I also asked if any denoucement of Mr. Twains earlier held position is available from whoever can do so. Until then, I might as well take flying lessons from pigs. And that is why I said I understand your position. APPEALING TO HYPOCRISY is a very very very very common logical fallacy... very easy to get into e.t.c. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
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masukuma wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:masukuma wrote:Anti_Burglar wrote:masukuma wrote:Tu quoque (pronounced "too kwoh-kway"), is a form of ad hominem fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that an argument is wrong if the source making the claim has itself spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with it. in school we referred to it as "appeal to hypocrisy" a common one is usually in this format
Bob: "Smoking is a well-known risk factor for cancer."
Alice: "But you yourself smoke!"
or ...
Bob: "Stealing is illegal"
Alice: "But you stole a car last year!"
the so called "you have no moral ground to say blah blah blah" arguement Maskum, et al, You have not got it, yet. What I said escaped you but I can still help you seize it. Perhaps you latched on to my statement that I hold him in no higher regard than any other common mortal man - an opinion that might have upset y'all given the high regard you have of him. All this chatter about intellectual and literature giant or the truth of his quote is irrelevant and political which if I will ignore lest I descend to the filthy depths of abusive talk which I leave to the plumbers who know themselves. I asked you to give another, who, as far as you and I can tell lived up to his pontifications. You can accept lessons from him, a documented racist if you please and subtly feed the mindset all you want but not I. By the way, has any denoucement of his earlier opinions ever been made by either himself or his estate? You never know, someone just might put them up and ask ya'll to learn from it. You don't get it.... it really has nothing to do with him living up to his pontifications. The subject is his pontifications. Can Moi talk about corruption? Yes... will his arguments be more valid or less valid because he said them? If the same exact statement comes from the pope or Obama - does it become more "truer" or more "factual". it's not about Moi or the Pope... it's about the statement on corruption and whether the statement is factual or not. But I understand - appeal to hypocrisy is a very common logical argument snare. It has everything to do with living up to one's convictions and expecting others to do the same. That is why for example when Mr. Francis talks about austerity from the Vatican the whole world takes him seriously. Maybe it is that way on these circles and not other circles, I don't know. What do you know, perhaps Mr. Twain meant it for his fellow white supremacists who are now watching with bemusement as you, an African, appropriate his speech for yourself. How can you take lessons about fraternity, equality, and other good human qualities from one who by precept and example spits and tramples upon them? If you do take those lessons what then stops you from taking the other lessons about subjection and subjugation? In all this, I am fair and I concede that hindsight vision is always 20/20 that is why I also asked if any denoucement of Mr. Twains earlier held position is available from whoever can do so. Until then, I might as well take flying lessons from pigs. And that is why I said I understand your position. APPEALING TO HYPOCRISY is a very very very very common logical fallacy... very easy to get into e.t.c. I am not willing you drag me further into controversy over what is fallacy or not, but if people actually did what they preached, there would be less preaching overall. And the world would be better than it is now.
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