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Maumau fiasco
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:Fyatu wrote:tycho wrote:That the maumau fought and died for the people of Kenya is an absurd story to feed our minds with.
The truth is that these were disaffected people who tried to shape their experience and failed miserably and won nothing for anyone. The MauMau struggle was real. Kimathi's blood watered the tree of independence. ansd stunted it's growth! trees don't grow on blood! Quote: Algeria July 5th, 1962 France Angola November 11th; 1975 Portugal
ETC ETC
just look at the dates... Why are the dates not within 5 years of each other? We need to understand that the colonialism experience was not the same across all colonies. Even within Kenya, the pressure was felt more by some communities more than others! why 5? each colony had it's interests in what they wanted from colonialism. The French way of colonising was very different from the british and the Portuguese. The worst were the prortugese then the french. some people just wanted names on the map like the italians and germans - most of colonialism stemmed from competition in europe. so back to my point - what we need to understand is that the british that colonialised us were very willing to let go of the territories but the settlers were not! the settlers declared independence in SA and Zim right? even Canada and Australia did that too - they became independent states. What would have been the fate of Kenya if we didn't have the Mau Mau war? would it have been an independent country following the patterns of SA, Canada and Zim? or would it have been like it's neighbours UG and TZ? I guess that is something that we can only guess but we cannot guess the effect of the Mau Mau on the native population. They killed scores more locals than europeans... it's like the pre independence people suffered more from the Mau Mau than from the british. p.s. While we don't rubbish your cucu's stories - we are more aware now of the greater geopolitical power plays that were taking place during that time than she ever was. She may have understood the native's situation better in her locality say Nyeri but her tales do not explain how and why a nation with one of the largest navies, one which was on the allied side that beat germany in the world war 20 years before that was beaten by a bunch of dreadlocked individuals who never even had a village in their control. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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Well it was/is in the syllabus so its deeply engraved in our mindsets. I am a maumau descendant.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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masukuma wrote: why 5? each colony had it's interests in what they wanted from colonialism. The French way of colonising was very different from the british and the Portuguese. The worst were the prortugese then the french. some people just wanted names on the map like the italians and germans - most of colonialism stemmed from competition in europe. so back to my point - what we need to understand is that the british that colonialised us were very willing to let go of the territories but the settlers were not! the settlers declared independence in SA and Zim right? even Canada and Australia did that too - they became independent states. What would have been the fate of Kenya if we didn't have the Mau Mau war? would it have been an independent country following the patterns of SA, Canada and Zim? or would it have been like it's neighbours UG and TZ? I guess that is something that we can only guess but we cannot guess the effect of the Mau Mau on the native population. They killed scores more locals than europeans... it's like the pre independence people suffered more from the Mau Mau than from the british. p.s. While we don't rubbish your cucu's stories - we are more aware now of the greater geopolitical power plays that were taking place during that time than she ever was. She may have understood the native's situation better in her locality say Nyeri but her tales do not explain how and why a nation with one of the largest navies, one which was on the allied side that beat germany in the world war 20 years before that was beaten by a bunch of dreadlocked individuals who never even had a village in their control.
5 because I thought you wanted to put across the point that from the 1950s it was freedom time...make it 10 By and large I think we agree. The only point we may disagree on is whether the guerrilla war was of any help to the independence cause. I think it was. It caused lots of suffering among the GEMA tribes but it did help.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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masukuma wrote:Lolest! wrote:Never released? This clip used to be played on National Holidays parts of it - the identity of the home guards became evident recently - ama? who are they? i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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harrydre wrote:masukuma wrote:Lolest! wrote:Never released? This clip used to be played on National Holidays parts of it - the identity of the home guards became evident recently - ama? who are they? agreed. Iko longer
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote: why 5? each colony had it's interests in what they wanted from colonialism. The French way of colonising was very different from the british and the Portuguese. The worst were the prortugese then the french. some people just wanted names on the map like the italians and germans - most of colonialism stemmed from competition in europe. so back to my point - what we need to understand is that the british that colonialised us were very willing to let go of the territories but the settlers were not! the settlers declared independence in SA and Zim right? even Canada and Australia did that too - they became independent states. What would have been the fate of Kenya if we didn't have the Mau Mau war? would it have been an independent country following the patterns of SA, Canada and Zim? or would it have been like it's neighbours UG and TZ? I guess that is something that we can only guess but we cannot guess the effect of the Mau Mau on the native population. They killed scores more locals than europeans... it's like the pre independence people suffered more from the Mau Mau than from the british. p.s. While we don't rubbish your cucu's stories - we are more aware now of the greater geopolitical power plays that were taking place during that time than she ever was. She may have understood the native's situation better in her locality say Nyeri but her tales do not explain how and why a nation with one of the largest navies, one which was on the allied side that beat germany in the world war 20 years before that was beaten by a bunch of dreadlocked individuals who never even had a village in their control.
5 because I thought you wanted to put across the point that from the 1950s it was freedom time...make it 10 By and large I think we agree. The only point we may disagree on is whether the guerrilla war was of any help to the independence cause. I think it was. It caused lots of suffering among the GEMA tribes but it did help. I think independence was to come (even from your statement on Briggs..?) but what kind of independence would it have been? SA style? Zim style? or TZ/UG style? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The maumau narrative, is mainly a false narrative. It's mostly propaganda against an African reaction to colonialism that I suspect few have come to understand.
Take the revealed details of Dedan Kimathi's arrest and sentencing. According to them, what was he? A pauper and criminal. Were the rules of war and insurgency so primitive by then to warrant such a description?
When one considers the meaning of maumau commonly peddled; mzungu aende ulaya mwafrika apate Uhuru, does it sound like a realistic objective whose outcome was independence?
The other name, Kenya Land and Freedom Army, takes 'Kenya' as a fact; didn't this then undermine the effort of waging war?
What about the military strategy used by the maumau? I take it that they turned mostly against other Africans in a bid to build resentment and fear against the whites hoping to build a critical mass against the colonialists. Was that strategy sufficient or even prudent?
The maumau story is a fiasco mainly because it's given to create a sense of finished business on the African front especially given independence. But unfortunately not only do the stories not add up, but neither does independence quench the thirst of the citizens of the now independent states. One wonders whether it was the same thirst driving Dedan Kimathi.
Granted, maumau agitation led to hastening the independence process, given the rising costs to the British government with respect to gains. But had the settlers had more economic power then even with maumau fighting Kenya would have gone the 'South Africa way'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Mr. Masie blomfield, the owner of cavina school in kilimani, is as racist as they come. When kibaki unveiled the Dedan Kimathi statue on kimathi Street, he wrote an article to the editor daily nation wondering why a self respecting nation would honour a terrorist.
The bile that followed, a good number of people were calling for his deportation while others thought the fact that such a vile character can be allowed to express his bigoted opinion was a hallmark of our liberalism.
I thought I could live with one neo-colonialist, since he is an old geezer who will die soon anyway. Didn't know we had a whole load of them here in wazua.
Disclaimer; my grandpa served 7 years at manyani.
If our short history has taught us something, it is that sacrificing for kenya is a stupid idea. When my grandpa, was at manyani, jeremia kiereini, was the educated Kikuyu accompanying the white sadists extracting confessions from the semi literate maumau through torture. They needed someone to translate and coerce the maumau in a language they would understand. My grandpa died a pauper and kiereini has been sitting at the high table since independence.
Where is rumba kinuthia, koigi wamwere, suba churchill, wanyiri kihoro, and the rest of second liberation heroes?
Ooh, sorry I forgot, they only served to delay the second liberation. There was a wave of multipartyism and Moi would have allowed multi parties anyway.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Speaking of 'multipartysim'; the US had the leading role in promoting it. The US also played a leading role in calling for independence of many colonies. Why did they play the role? Changing political conditions would make them richer and more powerful.
After all, isn't it odd for us to speak of a 'second liberation'?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:Mr. Masie blomfield, the owner of cavina school in kilimani, is as racist as they come. When kibaki unveiled the Dedan Kimathi statue on kimathi Street, he wrote an article to the editor daily nation wondering why a self respecting nation would honour a terrorist.
The bile that followed, a good number of people were calling for his deportation while others thought the fact that such a vile character can be allowed to express his bigoted opinion was a hallmark of our liberalism.
I thought I could live with one neo-colonialist, since he is an old geezer who will die soon anyway. Didn't know we had a whole load of them here in wazua.
Disclaimer; my grandpa served 7 years at manyani.
If our short history has taught us something, it is that sacrificing for kenya is a stupid idea. When my grandpa, was at manyani, jeremia kiereini, was the educated Kikuyu accompanying the white sadists extracting confessions from the semi literate maumau through torture. They needed someone to translate and coerce the maumau in a language they would understand. My grandpa died a pauper and kiereini has been sitting at the high table since independence.
Where is rumba kinuthia, koigi wamwere, suba churchill, wanyiri kihoro, and the rest of second liberation heroes?
Ooh, sorry I forgot, they only served to delay the second liberation. There was a wave of multipartyism and Moi would have allowed multi parties anyway. Sorry about your grandpa. But however history is what it is - brutal. I don't think giving yourself to any cause is a good idea... it's not a prudent idea. Paying a personal penalty with expectations is never rewarded anywhere on earth. You may get a medal or a title or something tokenistic in nature but that's it. So tenda Mema nenda zako should be our policy. My heartfelt sympathy to your grandpa. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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