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Maumau fiasco
tycho
#1 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 10:37:22 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
That the maumau fought and died for the people of Kenya is an absurd story to feed our minds with.

The truth is that these were disaffected people who tried to shape their experience and failed miserably and won nothing for anyone.
chemirocha
#2 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 11:21:18 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
It is a more dramatic story than the truth of blunders by British PM Winston Churchill, allegations of war crimes and the role of trade unionists and KAU.
Ngalaka
#3 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 11:47:30 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
tycho wrote:
That the maumau fought and died for the people of Kenya is an absurd story to feed our minds with.

The truth is that these were disaffected people who tried to shape their experience and failed miserably and won nothing for anyone.


That's exactly my view.
In fact my take is that the Mau mau confusion served to delay independence. Only after it was crashed did structured discussion towards independence take shape.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
masukuma
#4 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 11:53:13 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
That the maumau fought and died for the people of Kenya is an absurd story to feed our minds with.

The truth is that these were disaffected people who tried to shape their experience and failed miserably and won nothing for anyone.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Kuna watu hapa watakumaliza ukisema hivyo. I have always told people that the Mau Mau thingy was a waste of time, resources and lives. Useless struggle. Other than unknowingly setting up the Hola massacre and subsequent recognition by the british parliament of atrocities being metted on the native population by sir evelyn baring gava - it served no purpose! everything could have been sorted out politically as it was finally done! The former colonial masters were handing out independence like free cakes. there a period of time between June and August 1960 that so many countries got their independence. a waste of lives! but the narrative has been perpetuated about these heros who killed about 70 wazungus and thousands of africans. I feel nothing but pity for them and their misdirected efforts.

But I always suspected this when I was in school... after the mau mau narrative (that tulipigania uhuru) there was a trip to england by Legco to write a constitution and I was wondering... if we beat these people - why were they allowing our heros to come to their homeland? why were our heros going to enemy territory? kumbe... it would all make sense later.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#5 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 12:24:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
I like these Mau Mau debates

There are usually 2 takes on the movement in Kenya:

1) That the freedom fighters were heroes; that they drove out, or contributed the largest part to the eviction of mzungu. Anybody who was opposed to them is a traitor

2)The freedom fighters were not heroes; they engaged in a useless war for land only and lost; they had zero impact on independence

No 1 is used mainly by proponents of Kikuyu and Gema Nationalism and civil society memebers

No 2 Has been used increasingly over time by Kikuyuphobic Kenyans, from academia, media, etc

Now to the reality: Mau Mau never drove out the British like the Americans did in their war for independence. The fight was a guerilla fight against a well organised British Army with additional help from Kings African Rifles

It was a brave fight, no doubt, they tried. But I believe one of their main undoings was lack of weapons . Fighting WWII victors with home made guns was just an issue of faith. Little wonder then they killed very few whites and they never controlled any region or village!

But does that mean it was a useless movement? I increasingly believe it was necessary. An Ian Smith style unilateral declaration of independence was in the plan by LR Briggs with his United Kenya Party.

We must acknowledge that there were 2 types of whites post WWII:
1)The white settler in Kenya who had made this his home and couldn't see himself living elsewhere in less comfort
2)The whites in Britain who were more liberal and couldn't have minded giving us independence

The whites in Kenya always prevailed. After WWII, their numbers increased as white soldiers who had served in the war were rewarded with land in Kenya while the blacks got nothing

They were not going anywhere.

Had the Mau Mau insurgency not started, a UDI would have been declared by the settlers. The armed struggle embarrassed Britain when the atrocities reached the media in the West.

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
masukuma
#6 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 12:45:09 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
"Officially the number of Mau Mau and other rebels killed was 11,000, including 1,090 convicts hanged by the British administration. Just 32 white settlers were killed in the eight years of emergency.
However, unofficial figures suggest a much larger number were killed in the counter-insurgency campaign.
The Kenya Human Rights Commission has said 90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed during the crackdown, and 160,000 were detained in appalling conditions.
David Anderson, professor of African Politics at Oxford University, says he estimates the death toll in the conflict to have been as high as 25,000."

I think hindsight is 20-20 and with hindsight everyone is a genius. The worst thing is that some settlers still stayed, the ones who left were replaced by black ones and so - nothing really changed. Of course some of the settlers would have never left their nice malaria free highlands (http://www.siliconafrica.com/mosquito-fraternity/)
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
chemirocha
#7 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 1:19:24 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/30/2016
Posts: 332
Location: Rift Valley
Lolest! wrote:


Now to the reality: Mau Mau never drove out the British like the Americans did in their war for independence. The fight was a guerilla fight against a well organised British Army with additional help from Kings African Rifles

It was a brave fight, no doubt, they tried. But I believe one of their main undoings was lack of weapons . Fighting WWII victors with home made guns was just an issue of faith. Little wonder then they killed very few whites and they never controlled any region or village!



What bravery was shown by the Maumau? These fellows were thugs who deliberately targeted alleged Kikuyu collaborators.

You conveniently ignore the Lari massacre, the internal power struggles between Dedan Kimathi and General Mathenge and the hundreds of bystanders who were tortured and murdered. Even their highest profile "victory" against the mzungu was a colonial farmer and his young family, not hardened veterans of WW II.

The hero worship of Maumau is misplaced with the reality of that period.
Lolest!
#8 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 1:35:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
chemirocha wrote:
Lolest! wrote:


Now to the reality: Mau Mau never drove out the British like the Americans did in their war for independence. The fight was a guerilla fight against a well organised British Army with additional help from Kings African Rifles

It was a brave fight, no doubt, they tried. But I believe one of their main undoings was lack of weapons . Fighting WWII victors with home made guns was just an issue of faith. Little wonder then they killed very few whites and they never controlled any region or village!



What bravery was shown by the Maumau? These fellows were thugs who deliberately targeted alleged Kikuyu collaborators.

You conveniently ignore the Lari massacre, the internal power struggles between Dedan Kimathi and General Mathenge and the hundreds of bystanders who were tortured and murdered. Even their highest profile "victory" against the mzungu was a colonial farmer and his young family, not hardened veterans of WW II.

The hero worship of Maumau is misplaced with the reality of that period.

As in most wars, there were many atrocities by both sides. Mau Mau tried to force every person to be on their side; the colonialists did the same. BTW, most people didn't apply to be homeguards, they were forced to.

The other side was accused not just of killing and maiming, but torture, rape, looting

I refuse to call them thugs. They were not. They just fought for what they believed in

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
masukuma
#9 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 1:59:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:


As in most wars, there were many atrocities by both sides. Mau Mau tried to force every person to be on their side; the colonialists did the same. BTW, most people didn't apply to be homeguards, they were forced to.

The other side was accused not just of killing and maiming, but torture, rape, looting

I refuse to call them thugs. They were not. They just fought for what they believed in


it seems like this was their core job
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kollabo
#10 Posted : Friday, March 18, 2016 5:30:26 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
Mau mau led by Kimathi Washiuri were terrorists period.

Cutting innocent peoples tongues and opening their bowels ati for the sake of our freedoms.
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