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Why is Africa poor in general compared to the West?
Musimo
#261 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 12:19:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
nakujua wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
I have a question bothering me. Has someone ever wondered why african countries producing oil have oil being sold more expensive per litre than countries that don't produce oil .typical example is Nigeria(2nd world producer yet I saw people lining up to buy petrol ) , Ghana , and the rest . Why is it so ? .can someone explain to me like a 2 year old kid.


same reason we have maize/sugar shortage in Kenya yet we produce the same.

I thought the oil pricing thing is due to them not refining the same, they just sell crude and still have to import the refined products at the same price as everyone.


It would be good to process/refine maize, oil,sugar but the bigger problem is the cartels exploiting people as government stand aside and watch. This why you get very big price disparities across countries that import products like sugar and fuel even after factoring in logistical costs.


So it's the cartel thing just like the coffee thing being talked about on the papers. Now this makes sense


yes and if you don't kick them out of the supply chain you won't be any better even with locally refined/processed goods.


and the heads of this cartels are in bed with our so called leaders...vicious never ending cycle...


For one, Africa isnt poor...look at the minerals in africa currently, plus the lack of development on africa currently. This under-development can take africa far, if leaders seat down and decide to work for the people. the westerners know this, that's why they have restrictions on what type of goods can access their markets and in what quality (Raw,Finished). Intra-africa trade was touted by current president of kenya to eliminate need for mzungu to elevate himself above muafrica,but guys just shrugged him off, while he had a hard-on of a point. currently, west africa markets import most of their foodstuffs from europe,which the europeans have re-exported form other african countries. cut this chain and goods become cheaper, trade between countries flourishes. South africa and th U.S of A currently have trade problems because S.A refused to lower standards for goods produced huko nje not conforming t theirs. Kenyan coffee can never be bought milled because it kills jobs for the mzungu who would want to process it. The good leaders who have a vision for their people in africa are killed (anyone remember Lumumba, the original one not the kenyan one, C.I.A took him out). Look at Gaddafi, people in his country used to receive upkeep from the state whether they were working or not, now see where his country is. Look at all the countries that had an arab spring, before and after: which would you prefer?
Then africans have this notion that another african cannot be right. My siz has a website, studyinkenya.co.ke, she would go to pitch how the website works to university bigwigs and they wouldnt give a second thought to her, she changed tactics and went back with a mzungu who explained exatly what she had told them before, but with the mzungu accent...the next day she was called up to get things running, then we wonder why we will never develop. Mengine mumejionea lakini tutafanyaje jamani?
Swenani
#262 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 12:53:02 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
maka wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
nakujua wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
I have a question bothering me. Has someone ever wondered why african countries producing oil have oil being sold more expensive per litre than countries that don't produce oil .typical example is Nigeria(2nd world producer yet I saw people lining up to buy petrol ) , Ghana , and the rest . Why is it so ? .can someone explain to me like a 2 year old kid.


same reason we have maize/sugar shortage in Kenya yet we produce the same.

I thought the oil pricing thing is due to them not refining the same, they just sell crude and still have to import the refined products at the same price as everyone.


It would be good to process/refine maize, oil,sugar but the bigger problem is the cartels exploiting people as government stand aside and watch. This why you get very big price disparities across countries that import products like sugar and fuel even after factoring in logistical costs.


So it's the cartel thing just like the coffee thing being talked about on the papers. Now this makes sense


yes and if you don't kick them out of the supply chain you won't be any better even with locally refined/processed goods.


and the heads of this cartels are in bed with our so called leaders...vicious never ending cycle...

@Maka, your leaders are not in bed with the cartels,the cartel heads are your leaders

Btw did you lay/got laid about that KQ story?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
iris
#263 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 1:30:19 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/11/2014
Posts: 228
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
maka wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
nakujua wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
I have a question bothering me. Has someone ever wondered why african countries producing oil have oil being sold more expensive per litre than countries that don't produce oil .typical example is Nigeria(2nd world producer yet I saw people lining up to buy petrol ) , Ghana , and the rest . Why is it so ? .can someone explain to me like a 2 year old kid.


same reason we have maize/sugar shortage in Kenya yet we produce the same.

I thought the oil pricing thing is due to them not refining the same, they just sell crude and still have to import the refined products at the same price as everyone.


It would be good to process/refine maize, oil,sugar but the bigger problem is the cartels exploiting people as government stand aside and watch. This why you get very big price disparities across countries that import products like sugar and fuel even after factoring in logistical costs.


So it's the cartel thing just like the coffee thing being talked about on the papers. Now this makes sense


yes and if you don't kick them out of the supply chain you won't be any better even with locally refined/processed goods.


and the heads of this cartels are in bed with our so called leaders...vicious never ending cycle...

@Maka, your leaders are not in bed with the cartels,the cartel heads are your leaders

Btw did you lay/got laid about that KQ story?


Applause Applause clapping for your clarity of thought. When more Kenyans will be able to cut through the grease, perhaps a glimmer will appear at the end of the tunnel
junior121121
#264 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 2:15:37 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 11/9/2015
Posts: 56
maka wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
nakujua wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
enyands wrote:
I have a question bothering me. Has someone ever wondered why african countries producing oil have oil being sold more expensive per litre than countries that don't produce oil .typical example is Nigeria(2nd world producer yet I saw people lining up to buy petrol ) , Ghana , and the rest . Why is it so ? .can someone explain to me like a 2 year old kid.


same reason we have maize/sugar shortage in Kenya yet we produce the same.

I thought the oil pricing thing is due to them not refining the same, they just sell crude and still have to import the refined products at the same price as everyone.


It would be good to process/refine maize, oil,sugar but the bigger problem is the cartels exploiting people as government stand aside and watch. This why you get very big price disparities across countries that import products like sugar and fuel even after factoring in logistical costs.


So it's the cartel thing just like the coffee thing being talked about on the papers. Now this makes sense


yes and if you don't kick them out of the supply chain you won't be any better even with locally refined/processed goods.


and the heads of this cartels are in bed with our so called leaders...vicious never ending cycle...



In Nigeria/Angola/Venezuela etc & In my experience - the issue is inefficiencies of their current systems. Most of the refineries use outdated technologies and production is mediocre compared to the other 'developed' countries.

This coupled with other facts like continued pipeline vandalism/ inconsistent power supply for production/ heavy investment from multi nationals like chevron/shell etc (who in turn have refineries that can produce cheaper out of Nigeria/Venezuela) - further discourages investors from refining oil here. Corruption/individual interest also has its part to play (In Nigeria its in the form of 'fuel subsidies'

Fuel station queues are a norm in Nigeria - usually due to the subsidies to the oil marketers being delayed.
Ash Ock
#265 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 4:26:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
junior121121 wrote:
In Nigeria/Angola/Venezuela etc & In my experience - the issue is inefficiencies of their current systems. Most of the refineries use outdated technologies and production is mediocre compared to the other 'developed' countries.

This coupled with other facts like continued pipeline vandalism/ inconsistent power supply for production/ heavy investment from multi nationals like chevron/shell etc (who in turn have refineries that can produce cheaper out of Nigeria/Venezuela) - further discourages investors from refining oil here. Corruption/individual interest also has its part to play (In Nigeria its in the form of 'fuel subsidies'

Fuel station queues are a norm in Nigeria - usually due to the subsidies to the oil marketers being delayed.


In Venezuela fuel costs about $0.02 per litre (around 2 bob).

http://www.globalpetrolp...ezuela/gasoline_prices/
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
murchr
#266 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:48:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
enyands wrote:
I have a question bothering me. Has someone ever wondered why african countries producing oil have oil being sold more expensive per litre than countries that don't produce oil .typical example is Nigeria(2nd world producer yet I saw people lining up to buy petrol ) , Ghana , and the rest . Why is it so ? .can someone explain to me like a 2 year old kid.


Because they have been cheated that they cannot process their oil and they have to do it elsewhere (in most cases a non-oil producing country) to "benefit" because of the "complexity" of refining. Most African countries lack "continuous improvement" systems or what the Japanese call "Kaizen" such that they don't see the need to keep advancing their techniques and capacities..that is what happened to Rivatex, Kicomi, Pan-Paper, the refinery at Msa etc etc etc...
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
enyands
#267 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2016 8:28:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
murchr wrote:
enyands wrote:
I have a question bothering me. Has someone ever wondered why african countries producing oil have oil being sold more expensive per litre than countries that don't produce oil .typical example is Nigeria(2nd world producer yet I saw people lining up to buy petrol ) , Ghana , and the rest . Why is it so ? .can someone explain to me like a 2 year old kid.


Because they have been cheated that they cannot process their oil and they have to do it elsewhere (in most cases a non-oil producing country) to "benefit" because of the "complexity" of refining. Most African countries lack "continuous improvement" systems or what the Japanese call "Kaizen" such that they don't see the need to keep advancing their techniques and capacities..that is what happened to Rivatex, Kicomi, Pan-Paper, the refinery at Msa etc etc etc...



Do some of our African leaders take pride in their hollow brains?Zambia president said he is fasting a praying to God to rescue the economy .in short he has chosen to "do nothing and wait for answered prayers" I called it neo - colonialism
S.Mutaga III
#268 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 11:36:19 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 830
After much research, 3 years after starting this thread, my friend's theory holds. Africa (Kenya) is not poor because we are not intelligent, or because we have few resources. In fact, the average Mwananchi earning an honest wage is doing a great job. Africa is poor because funds meant for development projects is pocketed by politicians. That is the major cause of poverty in Kenya. Politicians are making us poor. Here is a breakdown of some instances (just a tip of a large iceberg), and you will clearly see why we are poor.
NYS Saga = Ksh 791 million unaccounted for
Eurobond Saga = Ksh 250 billion unaccounted for
Goldenberg Saga = Ksh 37 billion at least(153 billion from other sources)This cash is not adjusted for inflation, and was more than 10% of Kenya's GDP for several years
Anglo leasing scandal = 24 million Euros /2.7 billion Ksh (Ksh (Wikipeadia)
Many other scandals we dont know about
The total from the above scandals is about 290 billion Ksh. What can Ksh 290 billion do??
1) Nine Thika Roads (Thika rd cost 33 billion)
2) 1 FULLY EQUIPPED referral hospital (6 billion each) in each of the 47 counties. This would make Kenya a medical tourism destination.
3) This money is enough to irrigate millions of acres and foster food security in Kenya like in Israel.
NB: The above sagas are just a tip of the iceberg. Most of these sagas are the ones we dont hear about. Therefore, dont blame the ordinary Kenyan or the traffic cop, 95% of grand theft is by politicians and top businessmen. Sadly, all individuals implicated in these sagas are enjoying the money in Europe and the US because they stole so much that they can buy justice in Kenya.
According to a study, about 8500 people in Kenya control two-thirds of the Kenyan Economy. Income inequality is that serious. With over 44 million people, it is clear that 0.02% of the population controls 67% of the economy. Link: http://www.businessdaily...4/-/md5kpfz/-/index.html
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
Emerger
#269 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 11:51:27 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/1/2014
Posts: 45
Location: Nairobi
S.Mutaga III wrote:
After much research, 3 years after starting this thread, my friend's theory holds. Africa (Kenya) is not poor because we are not intelligent, or because we have few resources. In fact, the average Mwananchi earning an honest wage is doing a great job. Africa is poor because funds meant for development projects is pocketed by politicians. That is the major cause of poverty in Kenya. Politicians are making us poor. Here is a breakdown of some instances (just a tip of a large iceberg), and you will clearly see why we are poor.
NYS Saga = Ksh 791 million unaccounted for
Eurobond Saga = Ksh 250 billion unaccounted for
Goldenberg Saga = Ksh 37 billion at least(153 billion from other sources)This cash is not adjusted for inflation, and was more than 10% of Kenya's GDP for several years
Anglo leasing scandal = 24 million Euros /2.7 billion Ksh (Ksh (Wikipeadia)
Many other scandals we dont know about
The total from the above scandals is about 290 billion Ksh. What can Ksh 290 billion do??
1) Nine Thika Roads (Thika rd cost 33 billion)
2) 1 FULLY EQUIPPED referral hospital (6 billion each) in each of the 47 counties. This would make Kenya a medical tourism destination.
3) This money is enough to irrigate millions of acres and foster food security in Kenya like in Israel.
NB: The above sagas are just a tip of the iceberg. Most of these sagas are the ones we dont hear about. Therefore, dont blame the ordinary Kenyan or the traffic cop, 95% of grand theft is by politicians and top businessmen. Sadly, all individuals implicated in these sagas are enjoying the money in Europe and the US because they stole so much that they can buy justice in Kenya.



Well said Sir.
Politicians have made it a way of life to fleece the kenyans at will and thereafter use them to retain their political seats and the game continues.
The BIG Q is, can we end this?
I strongly believe we can.
We (read voters) keep on bringing them back.
We need to say no by electing responsible people like this Njoroge Man whose characters are way beyond power control.
The youth block holds the big voting block to change the destiny.
Your analysis is as you said a tip of the iceberg there's soo much more.

My thoughts
enyands
#270 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 5:48:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
[quote=S.Mutaga III] After much research, 3 years after starting this thread, my friend's theory holds. Africa (Kenya) is not poor because we are not intelligent, or because we have few resources. In fact, the average Mwananchi earning an honest wage is doing a great job. Africa is poor because funds meant for development projects is pocketed by politicians. That is the major cause of poverty in Kenya. Politicians are making us poor. Here is a breakdown of some instances (just a tip of a large iceberg), and you will clearly see why we are poor.
NYS Saga = Ksh 791 million unaccounted for
Eurobond Saga = Ksh 250 billion unaccounted for
Goldenberg Saga = Ksh 37 billion at least(153 billion from other sources)This cash is not adjusted for inflation, and was more than 10% of Kenya's GDP for several years
Anglo leasing scandal = 24 million Euros /2.7 billion Ksh (Ksh (Wikipeadia)
Many other scandals we dont know about
The total from the above scandals is about 290 billion Ksh. What can Ksh 290 billion do??
1) Nine Thika Roads (Thika rd cost 33 billion)
2) 1 FULLY EQUIPPED referral hospital (6 billion each) in each of the 47 counties. This would make Kenya a medical tourism destination.
3) This money is enough to irrigate millions of acres and foster food security in Kenya like in Israel.
NB: The above sagas are just a tip of the iceberg. Most of these sagas are the ones we dont hear about. Therefore, dont blame the ordinary Kenyan or the traffic cop, 95% of grand theft is by politicians and top businessmen. Sadly, all individuals implicated in these sagas are enjoying the money in Europe and the US because they stole so much that they can buy justice in Kenya.
According to a study, about 8500 people in Kenya control two-thirds of the Kenyan Economy. Income inequality is that serious. With over 44 million people, it is clear that 0.02% of the population controls 67% of the economy. Link: http://www.businessdaily.../-/md5kpfz/-/index.html[/quote]


Applause
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