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UAP HY15 profit before tax down 418%
enyands
#41 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2016 8:13:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
obiero wrote:
whiteowl wrote:
[quote=jerry]Listing moves to 2018 at the earliest.
http://www.businessdaily.../-/14qxxg8/-/index.html[/quote]

Probably timing to list during the next bull run

Very sober move by the UAP management



Kuna kitu sielewi. .didnt old mutual buy uap from Akina centum and the rest. So when the uap list are they going to list as uap or old mutual? Somebody told me that once uap is bought mu old mutual then everything changes to old mutual way
Ericsson
#42 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2016 11:45:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,702
Location: NAIROBI
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
TheGeek
#43 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 1:15:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/3/2014
Posts: 245
Ericsson wrote:
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018.


Pretty complicated stuff, of course middle management bear the brunt of these M&A.

when you get a chance, take a look into the Panafrica Gateway deal. then loopin the Sanlam nexus
Now lets add Prudential.

we have large international financial conglomerates with deep pockets showing long term interest in KE.

In the world of securities, courage and patience become the supreme virtues after adequate knowledge and a tested judgment are at hand.
Ericsson
#44 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 1:38:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,702
Location: NAIROBI
@TheGeek
For Panafrica Gateway deal that one is very straight forward.Pan Africa Insurance Holdings acquired Gateway insurance to enable it venture into General insurance with ease.
The structure of Pan Africa Insurance Holdings therefore has the following entities;
Pan Africa Life
Pan Africa General Insurance formerly Gateway
Pan Africa Asset Management
Sanlam has a 58% stake in Pan Africa Insurance Holdings therefore no share swaps.

@ all forgot to add under the Old Mutual Kenya Group the below entity;
Old Mutual Securities which is the stock brokerage arm
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
enyands
#45 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 5:08:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
Ericsson wrote:
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018


@Ericson thanks for explaining to me step by step.so what I'm getting there will be no uap insistence ipo rather old mutual ipo?
So another question do you propose a buy of uap right now in anticipation of huge capital gains during ipo ama hii ni moto ya kuotea mbali
sparkly
#46 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 9:02:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
enyands wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018


@Ericson thanks for explaining to me step by step.so what I'm getting there will be no uap insistence ipo rather old mutual ipo?
So another question do you propose a buy of uap right now in anticipation of huge capital gains during ipo ama hii ni moto ya kuotea mbali


Thanks @Ericson.

@enyands take your time to study the transactions and understand before buying.

M&As/restructurings are done by very smart people negotiating for smart money. Smart money always wins.

DJ screwing of old mutual will be passed on to Wanjikus upon listing.

I remember the CFC & Stanbic merger that enabled Standard Group to list in NSE.

Some poor souls bought CFC Bank at 600 up from around 200 when the merger was announced. This prompted NSE to adopt the 10% per day rule.

After a series of swaps, counter-swaps, issuance of news shares, undisclosed cash payments to Njonjo/Kiereini axis, CFC Stanbic Bank (the listed entity) was left with a goodwill of KES 13B in its books.

Now step back and look at this figure of KES 13B. It represents cash payments to somebody without a corresponding exchange of tangible assets. The amount is directly amortised against the profit of CFC Stanbic (and you wonder why CFC has a bigger balance sheet than NIC and DTB but can't match their profits).

Looking at CFC Stanbic Bank financial over the years, it is easy to see that existing assets were overstated, imaginary assets paid for and Wanjiku left to foot the bill, all within the law.
CHUNGA SANA.
Life is short. Live passionately.
murchr
#47 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 9:04:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Ericsson wrote:
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018.


I get the employees loss of jobs, but not the customer...after all Old Mutual is after the customer right? I also dont see why you think NedBank will take over faulu? Has that been stated?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
enyands
#48 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 9:27:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018


@Ericson thanks for explaining to me step by step.so what I'm getting there will be no uap insistence ipo rather old mutual ipo?
So another question do you propose a buy of uap right now in anticipation of huge capital gains during ipo ama hii ni moto ya kuotea mbali


Thanks @Ericson.

@enyands take your time to study the transactions and understand before buying.

M&As/restructurings are done by very smart people negotiating for smart money. Smart money always wins.

DJ screwing of old mutual will be passed on to Wanjikus upon listing.

I remember the CFC & Stanbic merger that enabled Standard Group to list in NSE.

Some poor souls bought CFC Bank at 600 up from around 200 when the merger was announced. This prompted NSE to adopt the 10% per day rule.

After a series of swaps, counter-swaps, issuance of news shares, undisclosed cash payments to Njonjo/Kiereini axis, CFC Stanbic Bank (the listed entity) was left with a goodwill of KES 13B in its books.

Now step back and look at this figure of KES 13B. It represents cash payments to somebody without a corresponding exchange of tangible assets. The amount is directly amortised against the profit of CFC Stanbic (and you wonder why CFC has a bigger balance sheet than NIC and DTB but can't match their profits).

Looking at CFC Stanbic Bank financial over the years, it is easy to see that existing assets were overstated, imaginary assets paid for and Wanjiku left to foot the bill, all within the law.
CHUNGA SANA.



As a layman two things :
1. Where dj has stepped is dangerous coz he shafts big
2. Hii ni moto ya kuotea mbali for now till they have a clear direction
Ericsson
#49 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 10:25:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,702
Location: NAIROBI
@Murchr;
Nedbank is the banking division of Old Mutual PLC;they own 53% of the bank.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Spikes
#50 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 11:14:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Ericsson wrote:
@Murchr;
Nedbank is the banking division of Old Mutual PLC;they own 53% of the bank.





@Erricson When was that 10% rule per day adopted? I am new in NSE I would like to know.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
VituVingiSana
#51 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2016 11:00:12 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
enyands wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
This is going to be a long and very complex merger.
First UAP and Old Mutual Insurance are going to combine their operations in areas/countries where operation is similar.This will result in some loss of customers and some employees retrenched.Some of the business units UAP was operating and which are not aligned to Old Mutual strategy will be dropped.
Secondly Old Mutual Kenya Group will be transformed into a non-operating holding company so as to incorporate the banking business and other non-insurance entities.
There will be share swaps so that persons with shareholding in the present UAP Group will be swapped with shares in the non-operating holding company.
Nedbank which is owned by Old Mutual Group will take over Faulu bank thereby gaining entry into the kenyan market.Nedbank will be the banker for the various entities under the Old Mutual Kenya Group.
The shareholders in Faulu Bank who own the shares not owned by Old Mutual will be offered shareholding in the holding company in exchange of Old Mutual Kenya Group and Nedbank taking over the bank fully.
In the end we will have Old Mutual Kenya Group with the following entities under it;
Old Mutual General Insurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Life Assurance Kenya Ltd
Old Mutual Asset Management Kenya Ltd
Nedbank Kenya formerly Faulu Bank
Old Mutual Kenya International which will own the regional entities in Uganda,Tanzania,South Sudan,Rwanda,DRC.

After the above merger is completed is when the group can now list in the NSE in the mentioned date of 2018


@Ericson thanks for explaining to me step by step.so what I'm getting there will be no uap insistence ipo rather old mutual ipo?
So another question do you propose a buy of uap right now in anticipation of huge capital gains during ipo ama hii ni moto ya kuotea mbali


Thanks @Ericson.

@enyands take your time to study the transactions and understand before buying.

M&As/restructurings are done by very smart people negotiating for smart money. Smart money always wins.

DJ screwing of old mutual will be passed on to Wanjikus upon listing.

I remember the CFC & Stanbic merger that enabled Standard Group to list in NSE.

Some poor souls bought CFC Bank at 600 up from around 200 when the merger was announced. This prompted NSE to adopt the 10% per day rule.

After a series of swaps, counter-swaps, issuance of news shares, undisclosed cash payments to Njonjo/Kiereini axis, CFC Stanbic Bank (the listed entity) was left with a goodwill of KES 13B in its books.

Now step back and look at this figure of KES 13B. It represents cash payments to somebody without a corresponding exchange of tangible assets. The amount is directly amortised against the profit of CFC Stanbic (and you wonder why CFC has a bigger balance sheet than NIC and DTB but can't match their profits).

Looking at CFC Stanbic Bank financial over the years, it is easy to see that existing assets were overstated, imaginary assets paid for and Wanjiku left to foot the bill, all within the law.
CHUNGA SANA.


@ericsson - Well explained.
On the goodwill, unless CFCStanbic thinks it is impaired they need not write it down nor amortize it. When I look at PB for CFCSB, I always deduct the goodwill.
The Balance Sheet during the merger was 2x DTB, NIC or I&M but the profits were lower or at par with these banks. CFCSB chased away the core clientele that CFC had nurtured over decades. If not for the deals with GOSS that Stanbic had the SA parent, the situation would have been worse.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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