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2 Stocks for life
VituVingiSana
#151 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:34:55 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
@VituVingiSana
Punguza emotions
@Watesh was making a point that we need the West more than they need us.
Any change of law they do hurts us most than when we do the same.
I gave u response on the issue of foreign ownership since u hadn't understood my point.
Take time and understand what one says before commenting with statements like nonsense


@Ericsson - Please enlighten me again on the response as far as foreign ownership is concerned.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#152 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 1:10:29 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
@VituVingiSana
I explained to you foreign ownership and foreign investment are two different things.
From the examples you gave of KK,Equity in Uganda and Rwanda,KCB in South Sudan that is foreign investment.
What as a country we should allow is investors the opportunity to setup their companies here and do business competing with local companies as well.
What problems does Kenya Re have does require foreign ownership capital inadequacy,loss making institution,huge debt.
That is where i disputed your point that gava should sell 51% stake to a foreign investor looking for gateway to Africa.
When local companies are sold to foreign investors there is normally an underlying reason.
Give me one local company that was sold and I will give u the underlying reason.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#153 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 1:21:29 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
@VituVingiSana
I explained to you foreign ownership and foreign investment are two different things. What's the difference between "foreign ownership" and "foreign investment"?

From the examples you gave of KK,Equity in Uganda and Rwanda,KCB in South Sudan that is foreign investment.
Hopefully, after you explain what 'foreign investment' is I might understand what you mean by the above.
What as a country we should allow is investors the opportunity to setup their companies here and do business competing with local companies as well.
What problems does Kenya Re have does require foreign ownership capital inadequacy,loss making institution,huge debt.
Does a firm have to have a problem for a foreign investor to invest in it?
That is where i disputed your point that gava should sell 51% stake to a foreign investor looking for gateway to Africa.
Does KenyaRe have the capital & expertise to aggressively expand into South, Central, North & West Africa and compete with South African, Moroccan & Nigerian firms?
When local companies are sold to foreign investors there is normally an underlying reason.
Give me one local company that was sold and I will give u the underlying reason.


One? Let me give you a bunch.

InterConsumer Products
Haco Industries
Cannon Assurance
Equity Bank [almost 50% last year]
KBL/EABL
CMC
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#154 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 7:49:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
@VituVingiSana
I explained to you foreign ownership and foreign investment are two different things. What's the difference between "foreign ownership" and "foreign investment"?

From the examples you gave of KK, Equity in Uganda and Rwanda, KCB in South Sudan that is foreign investment.
Hopefully, after you explain what 'foreign investment' is I might understand what you mean by the above.
What as a country we should allow is investors the opportunity to setup their companies here and do business competing with local companies as well.
What problems does Kenya Re have does require foreign ownership capital inadequacy, loss making institution, huge debt.
Does a firm have to have a problem for a foreign investor to invest in it?
There has to be an underlying reason why a company is sold to foreigners; get the difference between foreign ownership and investment. Foreign ownership means foreigners have control of the running affairs of the company; foreign investment is foreigners playing speculation game like me and you; buy share price low and sell high.

Read the caption about ARM, Uchumi and Nakumatt in business daily on searching for a foreign owner as a strategic investor. There has to be an underlying reason.

That is where I disputed your point that gava should sell 51% stake to a foreign investor looking for gateway to Africa.
Does Kenya Re have the capital & expertise to aggressively expand into South, Central, North & West Africa and compete with South African, Moroccan & Nigerian firms?

Kenya Re already has a subsidiary in West Africa operating from Abidjan, Ivory Coast.
For Southern Africa they are setting up a subsidiary to be based in Lusaka, Zambia.
As for capital, Kenya Re have a lot of money so capital isn’t a problem. Check their balance sheet in the 2014 Annual Report and 2015 Half Year Report.
They are normally cautious in their expansion i.e. ROI has to be justified before expanding else the money is invested in Government Securities, Quoted shares in NSE,Corporate bonds or fixed deposit accounts. That is the reason their profitability doesn’t experience wild swings even in a bear market because of their investment portfolio mix and you don't hear them writing down an investment.
Expertise you can hire without ceding control; reason why companies look for foreign ownership is capital.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#155 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 7:59:19 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
One? Let me give you a bunch.

InterConsumer Products--Competition was hitting them hard and the local owners didn't have the capital to further expand the company so they sold to L'Oreal who have the capital for further expansion.

Haco Industries--Competition from foreign brands.When NARC came into power HACO lost the monopoly they had in supplying biro pens to KRA at higly inflated prices where BIC pens were being sold at ksh.50 instead of 8.
Chris Kirubi looking for financial resources to diversify in the real sector via Centum.That is how he got his money to increase stake in Centum.

Cannon Assurance--Money to ensure the company complies with IRA statutory ratios and competition from other firms which was eating into their bottomline.Owner wanted money to invest in other profitable ventures.

Equity Bank [almost 50% last year]--No foreign ownership but foreign investors playing speculation game.Buying low and selling high.This is foreign investment.

KBL/EABL--Capital for expansion i.e cash rich Diageo could do it locals can't.

CMC--Company was on its way to death bed after losing the JLR dealership to RMA;owners looked for a "fool" to recoup their money before situation gets worse.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#156 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 8:00:24 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
For CMC they also lost exclusivity of the VW brand to DT Dobie
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Ericsson
#157 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 8:01:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
Nowadays both DT Dobie and CMC deal in VW brands.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#158 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:12:42 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
@ Ericsson - I give up. How about this... you are right. I will still advocate and hope a 'foreign investor/owner' OR a 'local investor/owner' will buy my KenRe shares for a substantial premium. It doesn't matter to me who buys coz the color of the payment to me will remain BLACK.

You said "From the examples you gave of KK, Equity in Uganda and Rwanda, KCB in South Sudan that is foreign investment." Then you said "Foreign ownership means foreigners have control of the running affairs of the company; foreign investment is foreigners playing speculation game like me and you; buy share price low and sell high."

That's when I gave up. If you cannot see the inconsistency in your statement, then I cannot help you.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#159 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:12:44 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,804
Location: NAIROBI
@VituVingiSana
At the end of the day we are here to make money.
Companies wil spread out geographically to make money for the owners.

If Kenya Re reaches ksh.50 per share will u cash out?
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
VituVingiSana
#160 Posted : Thursday, December 24, 2015 2:30:41 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,347
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
@VituVingiSana
At the end of the day we are here to make money.
Companies wil spread out geographically to make money for the owners.

If Kenya Re reaches ksh.50 per share will u cash out?

Within a reasonable (not after 10 years) time frame & at USD 0.49/share (currently 50/- with KES 102/$)... YES
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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